Thread: Todays words of wisdom on honing...

...more specifically on bevel setting.

I was having a conversation with a fine friend and honing mentor who said to me, (I am paraphrasing)...

When you do the arm hair test to determine if the bevel is truly set, don't do it with the intent to get the razor to pass, do it with the intent to force the razor to fail. If it passes in spite of your attempts to force it to fail, you're ready to move on. If you force it to pass, you may be kidding yourself into believing it's ready, when in fact, you're just scraping away arm hair.

Not sure if any of you can relate to this philosophically. Subtle, but concise. It was another light bulb going off for me (and it helps me remember it if I write it...).

I like your approach, I will try it on my next honing session

Sounds good, but I'm not quite sure how you would force it to fail?

Regards,
Neil

I usually target individual hairs off the back of my hand, and if they easily pop hairs from from the toe to the heel of a 1K stone then I will move up the progression without any further tests until i come off the cordovan, then i fully expect that razor to walk through the HHT.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Sounds good, but I'm not quite sure how you would force it to fail?

Regards,
Neil

I think of it this way... (and I'll bet many new honers do the same in their exuberance to get to the more fun stones). I used to go to the back of my hand, arm or wrist and take a swipe at the hairs. I was hoping to see it clear a patch. Any patch. Fell some hairs and I would give it a positive on the AHT. That, in my mind is forcing it to pass. Getting that sort of global 'it cut some hairs' result can easily give you a false pass as well as false security that you are okay, and the bevel is set across the entire edge. Key word being ENTIRE.

Forcing it to fail is to take a small section of the edge, maybe 1/4", and target one hair, as Jamie says. If that section cuts hair, move to another small section and a new hair and so on down the blade, in hopes that you find that section that DOESN'T cut. Your goal in forcing it to fail is identify any spots that don't easily cut a single hair. Find a spot tht doesn't cut and the blade fails the AHT.

That's a great way to test the entire edge. I use the tnt. You can feel it digging in when its set. If you have an partial unset bevel somewhere, you will feel it.

Originally Posted by bill3152

That's a great way to test the entire edge. I use the tnt. You can feel it digging in when its set. If you have an partial unset bevel somewhere, you will feel it.

I am using that as well Bill. I am trying not to rely on any one test as you can get a false positive. If you're passing more than one test, you limit your chances of moving ahead too soon. AHT, TNT & Sharpie.. pass all three and odds are with you.

When in doubt,send it out

This is truism of pretty much all testing whether it be honing tests, stress tests, statistical hypothesis tests, whatever. Although it seems to have gone by the wayside in University exams, where it seems any excuse to pass is now the norm, but I digress....

Maybe it's because of my background, but I don't think of these things as "tests" - there's a connotation that tests need to be passed, though that was certainly not their original purpose or intent - I think of them as "models". Models like model trains - a stylised and usually scaled down representation of the real thing.

A good model allows you to explore, in relative comfort and safety, the various aspects of what it is you are interested in. Even a bad model can be useful as long as you are aware that it is a bad model and why it is bad (which is why we all go off when a HHT thread starts up, for example).

Once you understand the model and its limitations you can develop tests based upon that model. Tests are just a standardised mechanism that allow you to systematically (or not) explore the model, and are generally highly dependent on the model and the assumptions that went into creating it.

So with honing and arm hair tests, what I bet a lot of people forget about is the underlying model - that being that arm hair can adequately approximate facial hair for the purposes of edge assessment. Not that it matters all that much, since the empirical evidence for most people says the model is adequate for its intended purpose, but I do think it is always good to be aware anyway.

But anyway, I think the advice is useful and good. Tests are meant to be failed as well as passed, that's their purpose. And understanding the model on which they are based helps you understand what that fail or pass means.

James.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Sounds good, but I'm not quite sure how you would force it to fail?

Regards,
Neil

You keep trying sections of the blade on small patches of hair. If you can make the blade go over a hair without cutting it then the bevel fails. If you can't then the bevel passes.

It's more of a mindset. The test is the same each time. The passing result doesn't change. But if you start out looking for a failing result, even trying to achieve one, then you are less likely to get a false positive. A false positive always leads to frustration because you go up in grit too soon.

Michael