Thread: All the fuss over honing thick grinds... Well let me say...

Hello all,


I have honed about 50 razors now and am getting very familiar with my stones. Norton 220/1k, 4k/8k, Cotis, and thuris. I have honed wedges, nears, 1/4s, 1/2s, fulls, and extras. In all my reading and practice I have heard much ado about how much more work the heavy grinds are to hone. I know that these blades are tough because there is much material to be removed. Well...


Last night I set to work on a Torry extra hollow, I mean it had a sound on the stones like none other, it sounded like I was dragging foil across the stones. Long story short, This thing took at least 500 laps to get the bevel set. It was in seemingly good condition, no big problem areas, but just so flexy (for lack of a better term). I could not push the areas that needed that little extra. It could be that this was a shoulder-less blade that allowed for such greater flex, but the toe was just not getting set.


I had some low music playing while I honed a 1/2 W&B, but when I got to this razor I had to transition into silence and focus all of my senses on this foe. Touch, sight, sound, and taste (bourbon for steady hand), had to be tuned into this razor. As I ran the blade across the 1k Norton I could see the blade flex as the light on the belly of the blade bent. I quickly came to the conclusion that this was gonna take finesse and switched to the King 1k.


Knowing that the King is a bit slower but much smoother would pay dividends later on the 4k, I set to it. The heel set first and with every additional 50 laps, I got another 1/2 " of bevel set. 2 and 1/2 hours later the toe finally gave the TPT of stickiness that I like, and a uniform symmetrical bevel was set. Much to my relief, the 4 and 8k went quickly and smoothly. I finished this blade with 50 laps on a blue/green thuri and am looking forward to the shave test later this evening.


So, lesson learned, extra hollows while being very thin and very little material to remove can be just as tough as those thicker grinds.


I need a Chosera or 2. Thanks for reading!


Chris

Hi Chris, glad you are having success with honing. Myself I don't apply enough pressure when honing to cause a blade, even a full hollow, to flex on the stone.

Originally Posted by hillbillypick

Hello all,...snip...
So, lesson learned, extra hollows while being very thin and very little material to remove can be just as tough as those thicker grinds.
I need a Chosera or 2. Thanks for reading!
Chris

Very good points. I have had a NOS Solingen xtra hollow destroyed by a good honer who didn't use his brain. A 6/8ths razor had an eighth of an inch hone wear on each side when i got it back from him. He said " well it was poor steel and was really hard to hone." Riight!
~Richard
PS, Old sloppy Green is a very good hone and I have now replaced it with King 800.

Originally Posted by Geezer

Very good points. I have had a NOS Solingen xtra hollow destroyed by a good honer who didn't use his brain. A 6/8ths razor had an eighth of an inch hone wear on each side when i got it back from him. He said " well it was poor steel and was really hard to hone." Riight!
~Richard
PS, Old sloppy Green is a very good hone and I have now replaced it with King 800.

How do you like the King? How's the speed and finish?

Thank you Richard, I appreciate reading your posts and insight.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Hi Chris, glad you are having success with honing. Myself I don't apply enough pressure when honing to cause a blade, even a full hollow, to flex on the stone.

I pay very close attention to pressure and torque on all razors. And while I do push a bit more on some razors, this thing was not happy with anything but a finishing type stroke. I am glad that I didn't let myself give up and fully feel that after the number of laps I had to give this thing, I think the muscle memory is locked in.

Originally Posted by hillbillypick

I have heard much ado about how much more work the heavy grinds are to hone. I know that these blades are tough because there is much material to be removed.

(That isn't from it being a "Wedge" that is from pervious honing errors)


Last night I set to work on a Torry extra hollow, I mean it had a sound on the stones like none other, it sounded like I was dragging foil across the stones.

(There is a Clue to the issue in there)


Long story short, This thing took at least 500 laps to get the bevel set. It was in seemingly good condition, no big problem areas, but just so flexy (for lack of a better term).

(Another Clue to the issue)

As I ran the blade across the 1k Norton I could see the blade flex as the light on the belly of the blade bent.

(Clue #3)


So, lesson learned, extra hollows while being very thin and very little material to remove can be just as tough as those thicker grinds.

( )

A picture of the razor would really help here,,,, sounds like one of three issues

Geometry
Foiled steel
Heavy hands

If your happy with the honing method that you have discovered Chris, then I'm happy for you.


I'm with Jimmy, this "Flexing" of a blade is something not found in my honing,,,razors or knives.

Thanks guys, I am sure that being as I'm still relatively new to honing, learning every day, it is honer error. I do find myself being heavy handed from time to time.

I had a chance to shave with it and it is pretty sweet and smooth but think a couple CrOx leather laps and another 60+ clean leather laps would put it where I like it.

Here are some pictures, sorry not the best but think they will do. Let me know if other shots are needed. Thank you all

Nicely done blade. It looks good and probably shaves even better.
Good luck!
~Richard

Thank you all for the tips and insights! I used the leather w/ CrOx that Randydance graciously gave me at our honing meetup. And it smoothed it up nicely but still lacked the smoothness. I ran it 100 extra light laps on my vintage coti and stropped it 100 laps. Tada!!!

Having shave tested the razor twice today, I was able to ATG and catch every stray stubble on my neck, and with a smoothness that I have only produced a few times.

it inspired me to hone another blade tonight. This was an Erik Anton Berg almost NOS. I tried to hone this months ago but stopped due to its great condition and my being new and not wanting to noob up a nice blade as thus. But the pictures and story of this honing is for a new thread. I will say though that the inspiration from that tough Torry followed over to this hard Sweadish steel. As a final note I will say that it too took some time but turned out even better, I think, will be a couple days before a shave test is possible.