Thread: The Thumb Tests

First off DON'T use the TNT unless you believe the edge to be damaged and you want to see how much. Your thumbnail is agressive enough to damage your shaving edge. Besides it feels to me exactly like fingernails on a chalkboard sounds and I can do without that.

The TPT requires a very sensitive attention to minor changes but what I have noticed in the progression is this.

1. The edge feels sharp, like a well honed knife, ready to cut a tomato effortlessly, but this won't shave. This is what I usually feel off the 4k Norton.
2. The edge starts to refine and provide a slight tickling sensation. This would be considered 'scary sharp' for most knives. It won't quite shave well though, pulling to various degrees.
3. The blade starts to exhibit a slight gripping or biting in sensation. Just as this starts I move to the HHT. If it's right the shave can be great.
4. The overhoned edge grabs or bites in to the thumb pad very easily, but had trouble shaving comfortably. Definitely too much work on the 8k and it's time to go back to the 4k for more than just a 3/3, 1/3, 1/3.

Each blade is different and there are many shades of grey in what I've described, but that's my general sense of it.

X

Should you always be able to pass the HHT before doing a shave test? I have heard lots of guys on the forums saying that they can't pass the HHT, but they have great shavers. Others say they pass the HHT, but the shave is lousy - so what gives?

If I'm honing with my 4k/8k, should I do pyramids until I can pass the HHT without a doubt before moving on to shaving with it? I only ask, because I know "less is more" and want to try avoid overhoning.

Any advice?

Unfortunately it depends on the hair you choose. I recommend getting a chest hair or other "firm/stiff" hair for these tests not hair from your head. That won't work well. This is why we recommend buying a sharp razor from a member first, for a benchmark. To try testing like the HHT or looking at them in a microscope before ever shaving with them.

You may have to resort to shave testing, which is not too big a deal but you can cause some pretty serious irritation that way.

I would never shave with a razor that doesn't pass the HHT for my hair.

The HHT is just another measuring rod like the TT. Each man has to interperet the results of these tests and what they mean for himself. The bald bachelor will have a tough time getting the information he needs from the HHT so he'll have to develop the other ways of determining when to move on to the shave test.

These days I often have razors that pass the HHT but don't shave that well since I'm trying to see where the minimum limit is with my honing. If they turn out like this a few gentle 1/3 passes usually get them ewhere they need to be.

If you're starting to overhone the edge, go back to the 4k for about 5 or 10 laps and work back down the pyramid. That usually starts the process back at the 'beginning'.

X

Originally Posted by Razorburne

Should you always be able to pass the HHT before doing a shave test? I have heard lots of guys on the forums saying that they can't pass the HHT, but they have great shavers. Others say they pass the HHT, but the shave is lousy - so what gives?

If I'm honing with my 4k/8k, should I do pyramids until I can pass the HHT without a doubt before moving on to shaving with it? I only ask, because I know "less is more" and want to try avoid overhoning.

Any advice?

I've also noticed with the HHT that technique in applying the hair to the blade is important too, and this changes with different types of hair. Some hair can just be placed on the blade and will slice. With some of the finer types of hair it appears the test fails unless you make sure you know which way the "grain" runs and give a little pull across the blade against this grain - maybe that's cheating, I don't know .... But consistency in the application of the HHT at all parts of the blade is important - it's not a matter of getting the hair to cut at any cost at different parts of the blade, when at other parts just a gentle waft does the trick.

So this is just a guess, but maybe some of the reason for the variability you mention in posts from other members can be attributed to differences in application of the test. On top of variability in hairs used, blade types etc. I mean.

But in any event, I tend to use the HHT as a relative test of the edge, not an absolute test of whether the blade shaves well. So I use the HHT to see which parts of the blade pass and which don't - usually middle versus ends of the blade etc. Of course, if your honing stroke is good all parts of the blade will pass, but it's good to check just in case...

So I'd say yes to your question, but just add that the HHT should pass, or at least perform the same, along all parts of the useable edge - ie you don't have to try harder at different parts to get the hair to cut.

At least then you know the edge is consistent in relative terms. What that means about the sharpness of the edge in absolute terms is a different question altogether in my opinion. For me, only the shave test answers this...

James.

Questions:

1) How is a razor passing the HHT different from a razor cutting hair on the face?

2) If your razor can't easily grab and slice a hair sticking out from between your thumb and finger, then why would that same razor perform any differently on your beard?

3) Just as it is with the "thumb tests," Isn't it the "quality" of the HHT that matters?


Scott

Originally Posted by honedright

Questions:

1) How is a razor passing the HHT different from a razor cutting hair on the face?

2) If your razor can't easily grab and slice a hair sticking out from between your thumb and finger, then why would that same razor perform any differently on your beard?

3) Just as it is with the "thumb tests," Isn't it the "quality" of the HHT that matters?


Scott

Sott - I'm assuming those questions are for me - apologies if they're rhetorical.

1. I find the hair anchor point is different between the HHT and a shave. And the blade is touching the skin for a shave. And the whiskers on my face, especially when short (like after one day post shave) lie at different angles to the blade when it cuts. I guess I feel the HHT is a simulated shave, and I've had enough experience with simulations in my life to know they can't possibly reflect all the nuances of the real thing;

2. One reason might be the hair you use for the HHT. If it doesn't approximate your facial hair very well, you might not pass the HHT but get a good shave nonetheless;

3. I agree 100%. It's just that, for me, a pass on the HHT, even a high quality pass, isn't the end of the story.

I mean, and this is a genuine question because I'm ignorant of what the honemeisters actually do, but do honemeisters pass the HHT (or any other non-shave test, for that matter) and send back the razor straight away, or do they test shave first? If they test shave, why?

James.

I always test shave. Even if the person I'm honing the razor for is standing right next to me. I don't even ask for permission. After that, if the "client" knows how to shave already I let him shave with the razor. The pinnacle of honing is to hone for each differing beard and facial type. The problem with HHT is that just cutting hair is only half the battle. The point is to be able to pass the edge smoothly along the skin, shave hair, and have no irritation. An overhoned edge passes an HHT pretty well. Shave with it though and you get irritation.

I have no idea what honemiesters do, but I've heard Lynn mention having irritation from honing (your talking lots of razors in a single day).

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

An overhoned edge passes an HHT pretty well.

Would you define "passes" an HHT?

Does just any cutting of the hair = a pass? Or are there other criteria required for a pass?

Is it possible for a razor to cut the hair, but not pass the HHT?

I imagine that there would be some difference between an overhoned edge and a correctly honed edge. Although, if using the thumb nail test correctly, an overhoned edge would never make it to the stropping stage, would it?


Scott

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I mean, and this is a genuine question because I'm ignorant of what the honemeisters actually do, but do honemeisters pass the HHT (or any other non-shave test, for that matter) and send back the razor straight away, or do they test shave first? If they test shave, why?

James.

Or, think of what barbers used to do. They wouldn't test shave themselves before shaving each customer would they? How could that barber be sure each customer got a satisfactory shave? After all, his reputation and business probably depended on the quality and consistency of his shaves. All a barber could rely on was the HHT or thumb pad test after stropping. It wouldn't have been a good business practice to do "test shaves" on customers, although it's quite possible that some did... ?

Scott