Thread: Windex on C12K and Coticule

I'm not trying to predict the direction of this thread, just a little purplexed by the OP's use of the words "surface tension".

If your stones are slowing down your blade to the point that you need to consider "accelerators" such as Windex, soap, Goat's milk,,,then maybe we have a problem with the amount of pressure that we are applying. Maybe??

Originally Posted by Utopian

I have never found this to be an issue on either of these stones but I was addressing the concerns of the OP. Some versions of both of these stones can be quite non-porous so there can be some tendency for the water to be pushed off of the stone. That's all.

I hear ya, but, the pushing or undercutting of the water by the edge or lack of pushing/undercutting by a portion of the blade is one of the keys to good honing. If it pushes off the stone, just add more.

I'm not sure Windex is going to give this type of feedback and I think it is formulated to dry quite quickly. Plus, I know we're talking naturals, but someone new is bound to put it on a synthetic, and being a solvent, I wouldn't want it on any of my man mades.

Regards,

Howard

Originally Posted by Utopian

I have never found this to be an issue on either of these stones but I was addressing the concerns of the OP. Some versions of both of these stones can be quite non-porous so there can be some tendency for the water to be pushed off of the stone. That's all.

I agree,,when water hits my C12k/PHIG it "puddles up' & will run off the surface like the stone was covered in RainX. I pour the water on both of them, then wipe the surface with my hand , leaving a damp surface, ten strokes, then re-wet , repeat.

OK, in my context surface tension relates to the tendency of water to bead up on some surfaces rather than spreading out in a uniform layer. It has no relation to stiction.

Originally Posted by Utopian

OK, in my context surface tension relates to the tendency of water to bead up on some surfaces rather than spreading out in a uniform layer. It has no relation to stiction.

O.K.,,,I was strictly talking friction/sticking,,,,hopefully the OP will clear this up.

This is from SC Johnson.

Windex® Original Glass Cleaner : SC Johnson

I don't know but wonder what these ingredients would do to the binder of the hone whether man made or natural.

The old barbers I knew in Newark, NJ, back in the 1980s, would use lather from their Lather King hot lather machines on the yellow coticule as the honing vehicle. I've tried a drop of dish soap along with the water on a coticule but it was too slick and fast for my hand. Windex is pretty strong stuff. I cannot say it would hurt the stone, coticules have been used with soap and even oil, but I wouldn't risk it. Chemicals in it might even react with the steel and cause spotting or something.

Dunno about the Chinese 12k. It's been years since I fooled with one and I cannot recall whether oil or soap was recommended. I know Eschers and Thuringans are water only. I don't know about surface tension either. Maybe it is a matter of definition, or maybe John is right and it is a matter of pressure ?

what I meant by surface tension is the feeling that the water is coating the stone and preventing the edge from contacting the surface of the stone. Soap with water and more so with Windex the edge cuts through the liquid and contacts the stone speeding thing up. That is the feel that I am experiencing. I remember a video of one of the honemeister' recommending windex but I can't find it. The reason I tried it in the first place. But I did not get the result I expected. I think it sped things up rather than slowing it down

I would think by reading this, that your soap & Windex is providing a surface that gives less resistence (more speed) to your strokes by coating the surface & preventing less contact with the blade.

If you want more contact with the blade, don't use anything. I may be wrong,,,

Originally Posted by Avenolpey

what I meant by surface tension is the feeling that the water is coating the stone and preventing the edge from contacting the surface of the stone. Soap with water and more so with Windex the edge cuts through the liquid and contacts the stone speeding thing up. That is the feel that I am experiencing. I remember a video of one of the honemeister' recommending windex but I can't find it. The reason I tried it in the first place. But I did not get the result I expected. I think it sped things up rather than slowing it down

Thanks for that - I wasn't sure what was meant either.

Have you tried slurry? Either from a slurry stone or a fine dmt? I have a C12k too and find that starting with slurry speeds things up considerably. But even with that, most (and this will vary as they are not consistent!) C12ks are very slow cutters.