Thread: Maintaining the edge between honings

Are you sure the bevel is properly set on your razors. Adding tape so late in the story could also imply you need tape to hit the edge... ie the bevel is not complete.

I been thinking about this rush to learn thing. The straight razor experience is all about slowing down, taking your time. If you get a razor sharp you have learned how to do it. To learn all the little nuances you have to have a lot of shaves gone buy. Your technique is going to interfere with your learning curve when it comes to being able to feel the difference you can make on an edge at the finer grits. What stone to use for a Sheffield compared to one made with American steel and all that. What you want to do is nail the basics and then move on. Like your guitar scenario you had to learn cords and progressions before you ever got to the point of adding feel and emotion. Not too much emotion in honing unless you have a warped blade that just frustrates the H out of you trying to get an even bevel on it. Speaking of bevel,, that would be basic #2 after the actual #1 shave. Take a 1k and put an edge on your razor with that you can shave with. You won't want to try it more than once but.....Then go on to the 4/8k (or what ever you have) and shave off those for a few months. It maybe hard for you to stay off the higher grits but the fact is if you can't get very nice shave off those grits with regular stropping (no paste or spray) Then IMO you are not ready to move on. I shaved off an 8k right away and did for a year before I even bought a higher grit.(12k Nani) I was getting great shaves and didn't know the difference. Now after 4 months I am waiting for a Zulu Grey and I am not sure I will be able to just pick that up and start using it to it's full potential. And I have ,,,, okay let's just say I have a heck of a lot more razors to play with than you :<0) There is another way to speed things up a bit. Buy more razors. Gold Dollars are great practice I hear and not to killer on the wallet. Or just splurge on the bay and buy a lot of 50 or so. You will get it I just suggest you relax and enjoy this learning experience. That will shorted the learning curve, or I think it did for me.

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

I'm going to speak in layman's terms (not from the perspective of an expert) to your concerns. You have figured out a way to get the razor properly sharpened, even if it requires frequent honing. Read about what other people are doing on the forum and if it sounds like a good idea, try it. The electrical tape protects your razor against hone wear so I recommend sticking with it.

Occasionally I try something else when my shave results don't seem up to par. I have the Shapton stones you have but lately the razors don't seem as sharp as they used to be. This weekend I got out an old barber hone (probably the equivalent of 6000 grit) and used it instead of my Shaptons to touch up a few razors. I have gotten a couple of really nice shaves. Maybe the razors needed a more aggressive finishing job than fine tuning with an 8K and 16K Shapton this time around.

I love the phrase "layman's terms". I also love the alternative phrase. I'm going to speak as if I'm talking to a fool". In my case this may be appropriate.

I have considered getting another hone of a different type as a last stone before stropping. Something to use instead of the 16k Shapton. One especially designed for or has become loved by razor honers more so than loved by knife sharpeners. OTOH, I have gone through the buying, using, selling, trading stones to use for knife sharpening. I even bought, used, sold then bought the same stone again because I found it performed better for me than what I replaced it with. Now I have a set I am completely happy with (except one more maybe ). I didn't want to go through this again for razors. Also, my knife sharpening skills have improved more from getting advice, learning from experts and practicing than it has from trying different type stones. Replacing tools is a bit frustrating and more expensive. But, if I can improve my razor honing tools with only one more stone I would be happy. Everyone says the Shapton glass stones are good. So maybe one more small (4"x6" or so) hone is appropriate. Once my skill is much better I can then choose my honing stones/strops with more knowledge.

At first I was trying to get my razors in shape using as few stones or strops as possible like the guys who have been honing for years. I have not been successful. Then I put my entire razor collection (2 razors ) through a honing using my 1k, 4k, 8k, 16k stones. Both were very nice at this point and hade a new, fresh and correct (I assume) edge bevel. Now, maintaining this is where I need serious improvement.

A side note on getting a stone out that you haven't used in a while. I don't know about you but I sometimes seem to get better results by doing something like this because I've added a "new" something to a routine that may have become a mechanical routine (rut). By changing something I now concentrate a little better because I have that feeling of "new". And for me I love getting a new something for a hobby or for work. It puts a little excitement back into the "whatever it is". This sounds a little childish or immature but it is something I've recognized about myself so why fight it? Fighting it is frustrating and NEVER as much fun.

Jack

The hardest thing to learn about honing is how to strop. Because no matter how perfect your edge is even if it was pro honed, after the first shave you will have to strop it. You will either improve or degrade the edge. Most common for novice honers is degradation.

While many of the skills from knife sharpening to razor honing will transfer, the skills are not the same. Just because you can drive a car, does not mean you can successfully drive a formula one car.

One of the hardest things to learn is Pressure, or lack of pressure. I suspect that you are using too much pressure at the low grits. While you can get a sharp edge, this will produce an edge that will be weak and chippy.

The other thing to look at is your strop, try a different strop, slow down, keep the spine on the on the strop while the razor is moving stop, then flip and do not use too much pressure.

The best thing you can do is find someone to watch you hone and strop, critique your technique and equipment. I think you are probably close but need a critical eye to avoid pitfalls.

Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Here's what i'd do:

Step away from anything higher than 8k.

Kill the edge very gently on a bottle or a couple of TNT such that it won't shave arm hairs-at any level. This forces you to establish a good basic bevel.

Stay on the 1k (with tape) until the blade cuts dry arm hairs easily.

Keep tape fresh, and always change tape for each stone.

Once the 1k has a fresh, arm-shaving bevel, then (retape) and start polishing with 4k and keep pressures moderate to light.

Won't take long, forget the arm hair test on 4k.

Retape and hit the 8k, keeping it light, and perfect.

When it starts shaving arm hairs again, stop and retape and finish very lightly and on clean water with the 8k.

Then, do not use any pastes.

Then, linen/leather stropping should make edge "tree-top" arm hairs.

Then, test shave.

If it won't _comfortably_ shave at that point, then there's something amiss in your basics. Once you get a good shaving edge at 8k, then you might play with 16k and sprays, etc.

But one can shave off the 8k indefinitely (as i, and many other have-and probably some still do).

also

Sometimes there's "too much music" in the room for dancing. How about picking one or two of the gurus/professionals with videos and only watch his vids/follow his advice for a bit. There are multiple ways to get to many places but also one can get confused with too many voices.

Also, please forget about knives when learning razors. I think that may be the major complication. "Let that world go" whilst learning razors. You can collide them together again later, but for now, razor focus.

A proper shaving edge can be maintained indefinitely without honing ever again, if stropped properly (pasted now and then). SEE: http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...xperiment.html

There is no rule that one must ever actually hone if he starts with good-shaving razor.

Cheers, Hope that helps.

(yeah, i know the OP is about "refreshing" but the basics have to be right)

Originally Posted by Jack0458

I don't know about you but I sometimes seem to get better results by doing something like this because I've added a "new" something to a routine that may have become a mechanical routine (rut). By changing something I now concentrate a little better because I have that feeling of "new". And for me I love getting a new something for a hobby or for work. It puts a little excitement back into the "whatever it is". This sounds a little childish or immature but it is something I've recognized about myself so why fight it? Fighting it is frustrating and NEVER as much fun.

Jack

I think your point about getting in a mechanical rut by using the same stuff makes a lot of sense.

In all likelihood, my continued interest in straight razor shaving is the challenges it brings, and the rewards of close, comfortable shaves.

Proper stropping technique is quite important.
But Once every 20 or so shaves you have a bit more damage than a normal stropping session will be able to fix
No stress cause this will help:

(I don't know the english name). There are some people who will help you out on how this works. (My english is too basic for that)


Good luck

Dries

Originally Posted by Jack0458

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A side note on getting a stone out that you haven't used in a while. I don't know about you but I sometimes seem to get better results by doing something like this because I've added a "new" something to a routine that may have become a mechanical routine (rut). By changing something I now concentrate a little better because I have that feeling of "new".

Thread you might like:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ng-over-3.html

To all the good advice you have been given above, I would add that at this stage, you should not be overly concerned about how many shaves you get before having to do maintenance on the edge. As your shaving, honing and stropping improve, you'll gradually get more shaves before you have to touchup or hone.

I feel you, and yes your beard does have something to do with it as well. I hone for a buddy and he has a fairly lite beard and he says he gets usually around eight scales before using chrox, but I get four or five with a thicker and coarser beard. I also drop to my 8k for 5 laps then the 12k followed by chrox for touch ups. My reasoning has been the highest grits are refining a sharp edge, and if the edge is pulling then it's not sharp enough, barber's used stones around 8k to resharpen an edge for multiple uses a day not to polish or refine an already sharp edge, so why would I use a high grit stone in hopes it would sharpen the edge enough. I realize that differs with say a coticule, but in that case you control the slurry for sharpening and polishing. some may argue dropping like that may affect the life of the razor but men have used that lower grit sharpening for hundreds of years, and we are using razors from the 17 and 1800's that were maintained that way for who knows how long before they were no longer used and now being returned to service by us, so obviously it is safe to assume it isn't a drastic difference. find what works for you and perfect it.