Thread: Been Honing, now questions?

OK.
I have been honing using the pyramid and on a 4/8 norton. Bevel is set. Have been doing this almost daily for a week. No tape. And shaving after each hone.

My questions now are this:

When i am honing I am keeping more water on the hone so that i can watch the wave in front of the edge, is this ok?

Am getting a better, longer lasting edge, especially with stropping, but edge does not keep super keen through the shave, lasts about 3/4 of shave. Possible why?

I do know that this is not easy, and i am really paying attention to keeping the blade flat, with light consistant pressure. Is the same pressure maintained on both the 4 and the 8 sides? or will this be a "feel" thing when I get better?

After the hone, is there a standard for linen/leather strop number?

Thats all for now, thanks

I started honing early and when I did, I honed a razor or two every day, sometimes multiple times a day, for about 4-5 months. It paid off just like your honing frequency will pay off if you keep it up. I've used a lot of water before, but most of the time, it's just enough to see the blade contact I'm getting, which really isn't that much. Bottom line, I don't think it matters until you get a stone dry. Once the bevel is set, I don't apply anything else but the weight of the blade pressure, which to me is laying the blade flat on the stone, balancing it by pulling up with my ring and pinkie finger and using my thumb and forefinger to control it with just enough pressure that the blade doesn't wobble or skip, which is the most minute amount, but not much. As for the loosing the edge 3/4 of the way through the shave. I've had that trouble before when I honed my Hart up really sharp. I started adding a layer of tape at a time and rehoning until I didn't have that issue (ended up with two). That was when I was first starting to shave and hone as well, so it could have been the pressure I was shaving with as well. I use linen then leather because I've found that the linen seems to bring back the sharpness a little faster for me and my razors stay sharper longer...just me. I've used leather exclusively for weeks and noticed I needed about 20 more laps to be the same.

..but edge does not keep super keen through the shave, lasts about 3/4 of shave. Possible why?

The most common reason seems to be that the bevel is not actually set. We get it close but not quite "there". It's usually just a matter of moving off the bevel setter to the next grit level a little too soon. In fact (and in my opinion), the reason that the pyramid method works for some is that it forces a little more work on the coarser stones. We spend so much time talking about finishers here that it's easy for the newcomer to want to get off the bevel too soon and get to what seems to be "the good part", when it's actually the other way around. Most of the sharpness comes from the bevel. So.. we end up polishing an edge that is just barely good enough and find that it quickly deteriorates to not quite good enough.

Of course, using too steep an angle - which usually leads to too much pressure - is also hard on an edge. To compound matters, there are many variables involved in beard prep, the soap used, stropping techniques, etc which can contribute to premature edge degradation.

I'd revisit the bevel first, maybe forgetting about counting strokes and just stick with it until it's done, then give stropping and angle a good look. The good news is that it gets easier and usually just all comes together at once.

rs,
Tack

Having a set bevel is a feel. A learned feel. Nothing visual. You visually have a bevel but to actually be set takes practice to KNOW it is SET. Lots of practice.

I will reset the bevel and make sure it is set. I am not really in a hurry to go fast, just want to learn it right the first time.
I do linen first then leather.
Thanks for the input.

Another question that needs to be asked is what type of razor are you honing? There may be other reasons why your edge degrades 3/4 of the way through a shave.

One good way to test the bevel is by placing the blade lightly on your thumbnail. Let it rest there with the weight of the blade. Now try to move the blade side to side (not toe to heel). Try this on several different spots along the razor for the toe to the heel. If the razor is able to slip off as you put pressure to the side, the bevel is not set at that spot. It should instead 'stick' right in the spot you put it.

Also, run a line of sharpie along the cutting edge on both sides while honing if you're having trouble; this will give you a good visual where the blade is actually contacting the hone, and where your trouble spots are.

that side to side test is a new one on me and i think I'm going to try it. always pick up something new on this site.

Originally Posted by Tack

The most common reason seems to be that the bevel is not actually set.

I'm not clear on the rationale for this. If the bevel is not set, what is the reason for the quality of the shave to change 3/4 of the way through? What's changing during the shave? If it's "dull" at the start, are you saying it is getting more dull?

I'm not arguing here, I just don't understand this concept.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I'm not clear on the rationale for this. If the bevel is not set, what is the reason for the quality of the shave to change 3/4 of the way through? What's changing during the shave? If it's "dull" at the start, are you saying it is getting more dull?

I'm not arguing here, I just don't understand this concept.

Yes. No one questions the idea that shaving damages the edge, ie- that the razor becomes less and less sharp with each shave. I'm suggesting that if the OP has a borderline edge to start with, it won't take much to dull it enough partway through the shave that it becomes noticable. A bevel that is almost but not quite right could leave the edge in that borderline state. In truth, such an edge will not be acceptable to him in the first place after he corrects the problem. It is also possible to have a good edge off the stones and then knock it back to the borderline point with poor stropping I suppose.

rs,
Tack