Thread: Honing didn't go too well

Originally Posted by Pithor

Just a few short remarks: you don't need to break in coticules. They work from the get go. Also superficial sawing marks really shouldn't be an issue and as far as I know coticules usually come flat from Ardennes-Coticule. I know I messed up when I didn't get results in the beginning and lapped my stone three times, convinced that it wasn't flat. It was, my honing stroke just sucked, bad.

One last word: unicot, unicot, unicot.

I know they don't need to break in like a translucent arkensa, it's more like getting to know the hone, experience the difference when using some pressure and/or some slurry.

about the sawmarks I stand by it, the amount of pressure you use is devided by the surface of contact between the razor and the hone, the sawmarks reduce this contact area thus increasing the effective pressure while to get a fine edge you want verry litle pressure

Originally Posted by Bram

I know they don't need to break in like a translucent arkensa, it's more like getting to know the hone, experience the difference when using some pressure and/or some slurry.

Ah, okay, like that. Still, sharpening knives is a different animal from sharpening razors, but I see where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by Bram

about the sawmarks I stand by it, the amount of pressure you use is devided by the surface of contact between the razor and the hone, the sawmarks reduce this contact area thus increasing the effective pressure while to get a fine edge you want verry litle pressure

I think that if your overall surface is flat and clear, shallow grooves are not going to make that much of a difference, as (a) at any given time, contact between the razor and the hone is relatively minimal, so I think the effect it has on pressure is too small to make an effective difference on the final edge and mainly (b) honing on slurry fills out the grooves if they are shallow enough not to catch the edge. I think so because I have one with quite a few of such saw/sand marks, and it works just fine on both water and slurry - these reasons seem logical to me.

the absolute contact area is small, that's a given, if only a fraction of this area is actually in contact the force is devided over an even smaller area, and so, your pressure [Newton / meters squared] obviously increases. as for (b) I usually finish on water, not slurry. although this thin film of water might indeed be significant if the groves are small enough.

A totaly different explenaition might be that my honing skills increased during the time that the sawmarks faded

Bram are you saying Ardennes Coticule sold you a stone with sawmarks in the working surface?

metsie, I started with an old razor and no stone. The previous owner had died and had been "shaving with a straight". Apparently i got the razor he wasn't using. It pulled. I put it down.

Later I bought Norton kit for my Japanese cutlery.

Then, at some point in time, I thought to put my razor on those rocks 1/4/8. WORKED!!! a little better, still not real good (i was learning to SR shave too). So i bought some more razors-old and cheap but in great condition. THOSE razors honed right up and I've been HOOKED ever since.

Also about then a retired barber gave me a Coticule. It took Glen's vids to teach me proper use of Coti. I'm a student of the GSSIXGUN school of honing.

AS YOU GET better at SHAVING, you'll learn much more about the edges you develop in honing. Each SHAVE teaches you better what is required to prep the beard and how to approach each section of your face. Each shave also educates your skin as to what is sharp and what is smooth. Your hands get educated too.

TOUCH/PRESSURE is
EVERYTHING
in shaving -and- honing.

All the resources for learning are laid out before you. Enjoy the ride.

You'll never forget the day, the shave, when you first get an edge velvet buttery smooth. Don't rush it.

Originally Posted by WadePatton

Bram are you saying Ardennes Coticule sold you a stone with sawmarks in the working surface?

what I call sawmarks might actually be marks from the flattening device the use, they are realy shallow and on a soft coti they are whiped of using the slurry stone without much effort

I have two, both came with faint sawmarks on it, the first one came from a shop in Antwerpen (Belgium). This stone is actually realy hard and it took some time before the marks faded, I recently found out that all the slurry came from the litle stone, not the hone, to my opinion this is the kind of coticule you want, great finish on water and if you want to speed things up using the soft slurry stone (which already shrunk a few mm in the last couple of months since I don't have a bevelsetter).

the second one is a Les Latneuses which came directly from Ardennes Coticule, the sawmarks on the normal side came right of within a couple of uses (this side has a bid of auto slurrying going on, it's that soft). the hydrid side I still haven't gotten lapped flat, already spend hours on sandpaper and I'm realy considering buying a DMT for this job at the moment.