Thread: The wrong question with no right answer; stroke count.

I will try using that feedback more. I currently go by what I see in the loupe, tpt, and some hair trimming.

Assuming that my bevel is properly set, I rarely go beyond 30 laps on 4k, 30 on 8K, 20 on 12K and then 20 laps on my 20K. From the bevel set on up, it is just a matter of refining and polishing. I suspect that I can get by with fewer laps on each successive stone, but I continue to do what has worked for me.

The hardest thing with numbers is really the bevel set part of the process. You just don't know considering the condition of the razor and even that will fool you sometimes, what it will take to get a good bevel. That said and as mentioned above, without a properly set bevel, you are conducting an exercise in frustration in most cases.

I do count the circles and X strokes in the bevel setting process, but it can take a few sets and a few more strokes depending on the razor. The microscope is a tremendous help here to insure that you get the bevel set all the way to the edge on both sides.

Now, after the bevel is set and I am using the Naniwa Super Stones and Suehiro 20K almost exclusively these days after the Chosera 1K bevel set, I can lay down a dozen razors and count and normally come away with a dozen really nice shavers. Part of this is because I hone a couple dozen razors almost every day and most of this is because it simply works with more consistency and reliability than other methods I have tried and I think I have tried most of the methods out there.

For me after the Chosera 1K it is:

40 circles firm pressure on the Naniwa SS 5K
40 circles weight of the blade pressure on the Naniwa SS 5K
5-6 weight of the blade X strokes on the Naniwa SS 5K
6-7 weight of the blade X strokes on the Naniwa SS 8K
10 weight of the blade X strokes on the Naniwa SS 12K
12-15 weight of the blade X strokes on the Suehiro 20K

Strop and shave. This works for me on virtually every make of razor without exception other than the do not buy types of razors or the razors whose condition requires a rolling X to get sharp.

YMMV

Have fun.

10 on linen and 30 on leather seems very light on the stropping. I have found that 75 on webbing around 45 seconds and 150 under 2 minutes on leather is a minimum for a razor just off the hone.

I'll defer to the others for the linen and final leather stropping numbers. I've been honing a long time, but shaving only a few months. Tomorrow I'm increasing my time on the linen (thanks Glen and no offense taken).

Those honing numbers are just a baseline average and they probably are skewed toward German steel. I go by feel, but I'm OCD enough that I have to write down the numbers for different metals with different hones to find the best solution. <sarcasm>Doesn't everyone have multiple notebooks of honing procedures??? <end sarcasm> ;-)

I consider over honing to be removing more metal than necessary to get it sharp. At some point you are not making it any sharper, you are just removing more metal. At 3k and above it is hard to do any serious over honing damage. At 12k and above I think your arms would tire out before you really did any damage. Below 1k it can happen pretty quickly.

I will add that it is possible to over sharpen a blade. I polished mine down to 0.001 micron and when laid flat on the skin of my arm it nicked me from just the weight of the blade. There was no way I was putting that on my face.

I hate to seem impossibly contradictory here but there is no such thing as too sharp or over stropping :<0)

Originally Posted by criswilson10

I'll defer to the others for the linen and final leather stropping numbers. I've been honing a long time, but shaving only a few months. Tomorrow I'm increasing my time on the linen (thanks Glen and no offense taken).

Those honing numbers are just a baseline average and they probably are skewed toward German steel. I go by feel, but I'm OCD enough that I have to write down the numbers for different metals with different hones to find the best solution. <sarcasm>Doesn't everyone have multiple notebooks of honing procedures??? <end sarcasm> ;-)

I consider over honing to be removing more metal than necessary to get it sharp. At some point you are not making it any sharper, you are just removing more metal. At 3k and above it is hard to do any serious over honing damage. At 12k and above I think your arms would tire out before you really did any damage. Below 1k it can happen pretty quickly.

I will add that it is possible to over sharpen a blade. I polished mine down to 0.001 micron and when laid flat on the skin of my arm it nicked me from just the weight of the blade. There was no way I was putting that on my face.

Too sharp for my girlish face has certainly happened to me but I know there are other guys who love it. I guess I am going overboard at the 8k level it seems. I hate this now I'm stuck at work with honing on the brain. I wish I could get the circle method but I'm terrible with it other than on the initial bevel set. I'm sure it doesn't help if the razor has a few issues to start.

"I hate to seem impossibly contradictory here but there is no such thing as too sharp"

I've got a diamond microtome at work that you might want to try then. It's beyond scary sharp. Accidentally touching the blade will result in stitches.

Seriously though, there is a level where things can be too sharp to be safely used for their intended purpose. .25 micron is about as sharp as I'll go on a razor and I prefer the feel of .5 micron CrOx. YMMV

Im in on the side of no such thing as too sharp, maybe too harsh ,, I never get cut by my sharp razors ,only the ones that are starting to dull, I also have a razor (Kinfolks) that is scary sharp , ive not had anything sharper in my stable (thanks to Glen/Gssixgun) and no cuts or rash, and it might not be the sharpest out there, but youll have to go along way to beat it, yet its still smooth ,, which really is the key to a shave ready razor my opinion only, tc

I would love to get a microscope and see what visually looks harsh or smooth to my skin. I wonder if there is a very clear visible difference you can see.