Thread: Honing "Feel"

Actually. I think it's more likely air pressure. When the edge is so smooth. That air can't leak past and the surface tension of the water seals the ends then a slight vacum is created. When that happens atmospheric pressure literally pushes the blade onto the stone.

Funny, I thought my honing just sucked. Seriously, though, I have learned to feel for that slick, smooth feel as I'm close to the finishing stage. Most of the good honing videos stress that.

If we are taking a vote on the science I am in your camp. With the addition of water and pressure on the blade the physical characteristics are more akin to suction then particle attraction.

F=AP which is derived from the definition of pressure which is P=FA

where as a Force is created that increases the Pressure in an Area greater than the pressure outside of that Area. With a reduction of Force a vacuum is created when the atmospheric pressure is not reduced equivalent to the -F

Somewhat like a glass of cold water sticking to a table. Except with in that case the water creates a seal around air which is cooled causing it's atmospheric pressure to drop below that of the air surrounding the glass. Vacuum or low pressure.

In the case of the razor and hone, the honing pressure on the blade creates a drop in pressure below it. That area's low pressure = suck.

And ScoutHikerDad Theoretically, in QCD (quantum chromodynamics) vacuum multiple vacuum states can coexist. Where as the blade has a vacuum the sucks yours is just a matter of needing more practice :<0)

Originally Posted by razornut

Actually. I think it's more likely air pressure. When the edge is so smooth. That air can't leak past and the surface tension of the water seals the ends then a slight vacum is created. When that happens atmospheric pressure literally pushes the blade onto the stone.

Thanks for making me feel dumb on multiple levels, Pups.

Edit: FWIW, I got in plenty of practice over the weekend with 4 problem blades. I was up at Kevn/Hidestoart's house, and tweaked those blades out to the max on synthetics up through the Norton 8k, then a natural progression from coticule to escher, followed by lots of stropping on all his wonderful handmade strops. I brought those edges home, tested 'em out, and they're the best, smoothest I've ever shaved with. It was really my first good session with naturals, and I have to say I like those edges even better than the ones I finished on a Nani12/Gokumyo 20k progression at the Asheville meetup! Maybe there's hope for me yet.

See now, I was joking around but you out and out lied :<0)

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Thanks for making me feel dumb on multiple levels, Pups.

Edit: FWIW, I got in plenty of practice over the weekend with 4 problem blades. I was up at Kevn/Hidestoart's house, and tweaked those blades out to the max on synthetics up through the Norton 8k, then a natural progression from coticule to escher, followed by lots of stropping on all his wonderful handmade strops. I brought those edges home, tested 'em out, and they're the best, smoothest I've ever shaved with. It was really my first good session with naturals, and I have to say I like those edges even better than the ones I finished on a Nani12/Gokumyo 20k progression at the Asheville meetup! Maybe there's hope for me yet.

FWIW I bet your not so dumb either....

I'll chime in with my take on it - coefficient of friction.

As the surface of the bevel smooths out the coefficient of friction increases because there is more metal touching the hone than there would be with a rough edge.

This is analogous to steet tires with tread and track tires with no tread.

-john

Originally Posted by ocelot27

I'll chime in with my take on it - coefficient of friction.

As the surface of the bevel smooths out the coefficient of friction increases because there is more metal touching the hone than there would be with a rough edge.

This is analogous to steet tires with tread and track tires with no tread.

-john

Good theory but not applicable to the situation. Case in point. The same thing happens when lapping a stone. However with the weight ratios you can actually turn things upside down and they still stick together. Your car would fall on it's hood. It's all in the water.

When you can hone past all the electrons & get the nuclei in contact then you have close contact between stone & blade.

Originally Posted by 10Pups

Good theory but not applicable to the situation. Case in point. The same thing happens when lapping a stone. However with the weight ratios you can actually turn things upside down and they still stick together. Your car would fall on it's hood. It's all in the water.

I was more referring to the increase in resistance that you feel when honing on higher grit stones as the bevel smooths out - I don't think this has anything to do with water "suction."

-john