Thread: Any body have any experience with Coticule?

Out of the half dozen or so I have had I think I had one that could really be consider a great stone. The rest could put a decent edge on a razor but I like others better.

I have a few and I'm convinced that it's best usage is smoothing scratches from a finer synthetic.
That is: I hone till naniwa 12k then few very light strokes on coticule (whatever vein) and it's done. I can hardly get better with jnat and escher on most steels.

In the 1980s I used to go to barber shops and inquire of old pro barbers whether they had any old straight razors they would be willing to sell. This in North NJ, USA. I'd bring a few with me to assure the old fellows I was a bona fide collector and not some nut who wanted to cut throats. I became friends with a few of them and before long my interest extended to their hones. Aside from the barber hones we all are familiar with all of them used coticules with hot lather from their Lather King machines as a vehicle.

I did not learn to hone with the few coticules I bought from those guys, @ $20.00 per copy, because having been shown to use no more than 5 x strokes, weight of the blade, "or you'll lose the edge", I didn't push the envelope further at the time. Fast forward to 2007 when I began learning to hone through SRP. All of the hones those guys had were the 5x2-1/2 with "Made In Belgium" stamped on the side. If they had others I didn't see them, and I assume that must have been the default size sold by the suppliers of said hones.

Back in those days I was told, the barber suppliers had panel trucks go round to the barber shops with all the kit they might need, from strops, razors, coticules, to hair tonic, scissors and what have you. Anyway, after years of honing on many coticules I've come to the conclusion that those fellows wanted a hone that would provide a smooth and 'safe' edge. Not as 'crisp' as what a 12k naniwa superstone, or a 20k Suehiro will provide.

Shaving another man's face, one after another, they wanted an edge that would get the job done with the least risk of leaving a nick. IMHO that is why those particular guys used the coticule, and that is why we find them to be as they are, compared to the aforementioned stones.

Coticules are, to me, a hit or miss stone. But they are expensive for what they are when they are of some size and quality.

Someone gave me a deep rock coticule a while ago, unused, for helping them sell off their frictionite collection, and I got another higher dollar coticule from a member on here, disburden. Those are the two that I have that are good. The rest I've gotten rid of.

The deep rock is the size Jimmy mentioned and on the sticker, it says "for the select barber trade". No surprise there, I have no idea what else it would be useful for. My deep rock is actuallly a fairly aggressive stone, and the other one that I bought here is very fine used properly, and can make a bright polish that is keen. They make a fantastic combination.

I keep the deep rock stone because it was a gift, and the other stone because from my experience, I'm afraid it would cost me a lot of money to find another one as fine. I've got no love for the new stones, they make me want to find my japanese stones.

Jimmy is probably right that the best way to use any of the more coarse versions is a few strokes at a time so that they are working the bevel and keeping the edge thin, but not getting all the way to the edge. Generally, that's a good policy with any stone that can't create a good edge due to being a little too coarse.

They are beautiful looking stones, though, I think that's a large part of the draw to them.

What I'm getting at with all of my comments is that they are a stone I'd experiment with after I already had something else that I could rely on. You could have to go through several of them to get one you like, and keep in mind that coticules are like other natural stones, there have been some mined that are not intended for razors, or that are not appropriate.

I experiment with hones and am in no way a Honologist! I have most of the common man made water stones and use them as well as the Coticules. I like the Coticules...as far as the better ( read finer and harder) ones. They have a cult following and some are worth the hype. Out of maybe 15 I retain, I have four that are terrific and 8 that are good and the rest are good in the kitchen. Each one was found in the wild so I have no idea of the technical and miners' description of the hones. It was said above that the stones may vary in grit size along the hone, that is true and also some give the feeling of cutting a LOT faster in one direction of a stroke than the other and they do! My first antique one had a hard surface with three distinct levels of grit along its 7"length.

Slurry amount and thickness is all important with them and the finish obtained is governed by proper and knowledgeable use of it.
I did not buy a new one, but the recent "select" ones I have tried were good hones!
With a comfortable smooth edge, when right on, a pleasant shave may be obtained. YMMV!
Each one is different and you and the steel will have differing results from another user of the same hone.
If they trip your trigger and you want to play, have fun!
~Richard
PS. As with any hone or combination of hones, the variables are numerous!
Steel, hone, slurry, experience, technique, lubricant, and your face when done

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

.

I did not learn to hone with the few coticules I bought from those guys, @ $20.00 per copy, because having been shown to use no more than 5 x strokes, weight of the blade, "or you'll lose the edge", I didn't push the envelope further at the time.

Just to clarify, to avoid any misunderstanding, the barber who told me that was a 70 year old veteran of 50 years of pro barbering. He also told me, "You can overstrop a razor." Well coming to SRP and learning the ropes from the esteemed gentlemen who've shared their knowledge, I found that the old fellow gave me poor advice. SRP members have preved that you cannot 'overstrop' a razor, if you strop correctly, and had I pushed the envelope, and went beyond the 5 weight of the blade strokes, I might have successfully honed my razors back in the 1980s.

In the old fellow's defense, I must add that he was probably referring to touching up a shave ready edge, not bringing an antique store find to shave ready. He gave me a 5 minute demonstration when I bought a coticule from him. Most of those old guys had long since stopped doing shaves by the 1980s, so he was probably cautious as to advising me to go beyond 5 strokes seeing I was a neophyte honer.

Now I might do 150-200 strokes on a sharp razor to get it where I want it on a good coticule. Maybe a lot less, maybe more. Depends on the razor and the coticule.

The only Coti i have is the aformentioned Barber Shop stone from retired barber. I makes a nice shaving edge, but i've not examined it closely. I use it, but also use synthetics and other naturals.

Natural stones are still being mined worldwide. Coticule is simply the Belgian sort, with a very long history.

I had a hard time learning the coticule to be honest .. prob a lot cause I hadn't really mastered the art of honing any way at the time but after playing exclusively with my coticules I love the edge that come off mine and have my own technique that works for me and all my other stones collect dust ... what once was 1k-4k-8k-12k-zulu is now a 31/1x31/2 coticule to reset a bevel (fast cutter) from there progressions of slurry and x strokes on another ... I enjoy working with 1 or 2 stones much better and I feel a coolness factor while using them do to the fact that it is a natural stone pulled from the earth !!!

the only other edge that I have loved other then my coticule edges has been on a razor I got from JimmyHAD !! that thing still blows my mind !! but it came off of his top secret Escher so I just get as close as I can with my pinkish yellow coticule ...lol( im sure it has more to do with his experience on a stone )

Originally Posted by gooser

the only other edge that I have loved other then my coticule edges has been on a razor I got from JimmyHAD !! that thing still blows my mind !! but it came off of his top secret Escher so I just get as close as I can with my pinkish yellow coticule ...lol( im sure it has more to do with his experience on a stone )

That same edge by Jimmy got me to acquire HAD disease!

Now after 1 Escher, 5 turi's, two Zulus, 3 cotis, one HG and a Goukomoyo 20K (not a natural), the thirst has been quenched! I think!?

My recommendation to the OP is, get a proven stone if you can. Other wise go with proven man made stones for razors. You would save money in the long run.

Cotis are good stones as a base stone but few make the finishing cut IMO.

Double O

This thread has been an interesting read, very straight forward and factual..

I have one Coticule now, I use it as a finisher, light slurry dilute to water and done, it works very well on the older heavier Sheffield razors after a synthetic progression..
I also use it as a set up hone with slightly heavier slurry when honing Kamisori right before a Nakayama finish,, it sets up a nice hazy bevel for the Nakayama to finish off.

A arrow in the quiver, a tool in the box...