Thread: Sheffield or Solingen the honing difference?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

(Don't wanna put words in Jimmy's mouth but that is the way I understood him)

I agree.

Grind and proportions have an enormous effect, as does hardness.

The large differences in centuries ago steel had to do with the natural content of the ores, but the days of modern metallurgy, or even crucible steel probably wiped out a lot of the differences above and beyond marketing. First stainless was from ore that was loaded with nickel or something similar, wasn't it? I can't remember where it was from, but not germany or england.

A friend of mine that's a toolmaker likes to say "solingen has been living on their reputation for at least two centuries". He says that when I say that solingen razors are pretty reliable, but no better than the stuff that was coming out of NY and NJ in the united states at the same time. He was charged with making 18th century tools and has gotten stuck studying various related items because of that.

Originally Posted by DaveW

...First stainless was from ore that was loaded with nickel or something similar, wasn't it? I can't remember where it was from, but not germany or england.

While we might very well describe some of the earlier (1800s - 1900s) 'surgical' steels as stainless because of the alloying elements (phosphates, chromium, nickel, etc) they contained, we have to recognise the invention as belonging to the 20th century, and its birthplace as Sheffield.

Harry Brearley was employed as a boy aged 12 by Thomas Firth & Sons, the same crucible steel forge that had employed his father. Firth & Sons had upgraded him to a lab assistant in his 20s and sent him away to college to learn his trade more fully.

In 1901 he left Firth & Sons for a while to work at Kayser Ellisons works, another fine english steel producer. A lot of Firths ore came from Riga and Harry experimented for a while with this. Later, Harry was to spend a great deal of time at Firths research labs, particularly to evolve a steel that eroded less than that commonly used for arms parts. He was not trying to make a stainless steel, rather he was more concerned about the amount of chromium and carbon that went into the alloy.

In 1913 he came up trumps and announced his new 'rustless' steel. Firths were less enamoured of the alloy, indeed it needed expert handling and the first two batches sent to various Sheffield cutlery firms were deemed a failure.

Harry wouldn't give up though, and oversaw the forging of another batch by a small firm called Moseley at the Portland Works. The name was changed fron rustless to stainless and the product took off, only to be halted in its tracks by the onset of WW1 and delayed another decade or so.

The criterion of stainless was a minimum 10.5% chromium cont that allowed the easily corroded low carbon iron steel to form a passive coating of oxide which resisted attack.

Regards,
Neil

I have one Sheffield to compare; a Wolstenholm pipe razor. It is a full hollow. It, coincidentally is the smoothest razor I own. I don't have many to compare and didn't think much of it until I noticed this thread.