Thread: Razor won't take an edge.

Originally Posted by 74d34h

I have two 4/8 vintage straights that I recently bought from one of the bigger vendors. I like their restore work but not a fan of their "shave ready" edges. Normally a few quick passes on the coticule gets me the edge I am used to with all of my straights. But no matter what I do I cannot get a good edge on one of them. The other is just fine, easy to hone. I am definately a beginner, I just wanted to disclose that. I use a Belgium Blue and Coticule only for my straights. I bevel set on the blue and hone on the coticule.This is the first time I am thinking I need a lower grit stone for setting a bevel. I have been shaving with straights for about 5 years and have never needed to send a blade out for professional honing so I think I am doing pretty good.I also bought a dull vintage on Ebay and honed it to perfection. I also DE shave, so I know how a good shave is with the proper edge. I am using a 20x loupe and it looks just fine down the whole edge, no pits or chips. After I write this I am going to try again with the idea that maybe the blade is flexing.

The thing that stuck out to me was the 4/8's size. I now have all of my razors sharp but for a while I was able to hone everything well except for the 4/8's razors.

I posted for help as well. Even though there should be no difference in honing due to the width of the blade oftentimes there is a difference due to not having the blade perfectly flat on the hone.

There is less room for error with such a small blade. It's the same with stropping. You may not be polishing the edge or you may be folding the edge over.

I just stuck with it and eventually got them all sharp. I doubt if you need to go down in grit. I also don't particularly enjoy shaving with a 4/8's so it becomes a moot point for me as well but I did want to get everything sharp (and I did).

I have 3 4/8 shavers now and one nice 4/8 Puma I found on Ebay a few years back that was $20 and in great shape. I honed that up and its actually one of my top shavers. I do not like how little cream the 4/8 hold when I am shaving but I love the 4/8 around my nose and chin for that bbs shave. I struggle with the 7/8 around my nose. I have 3 5/8 that seem to be my goto blades.

I just ordered a 30x loupe because why not they are cheap on amazon and my eyes are not what they used to be. I am going to work on this blade again. What I am experiencing is I feel like the blade is not catching much friction on the stone. I am really thinking I am getting a flex or lift of the blade off the stone. This is my only straight that I can not get a good shave with.

I also have some nice wool, and canvass strops with black, red and green crayons. I have the diamond spray for the wool. For my leather I use a 3" horsehide from SRP that is awesome. I will get this blade shave ready.

Many disagree with Dr. matt on this. But having a razor with a proper set "bevel" not the edge makes a world of different. Bevel meaning the entire blade from spine to edge sits flat on the stone without any rock or wobble. Not only does it make honing easier, but the edges come out supreme.
I know this cuz I sent 2 razors to matt to have him fix the geometry on, and holy cow, those razors are outa control smooth. He is really good at doing very little grinding to set them up, but that does not mean you HAVE to have a perfectly set bevel to get a good shave, it just helps tremendously.
BTW: I've had blades from whippeddog, I had one from SRD and also 2 from Dr matt in my day. Dr Matt's edges are by far the best, that guy really has a knack for this so if your looking for a honing I can't recommend him enough, so fast too. he ships out like the next day!

Originally Posted by glytch5

Many disagree with Dr. matt on this. But having a razor with a proper set "bevel" not the edge makes a world of different. Bevel meaning the entire blade from spine to edge sits flat on the stone without any rock or wobble. Not only does it make honing easier, but the edges come out supreme.
I know this cuz I sent 2 razors to matt to have him fix the geometry on, and holy cow, those razors are outa control smooth. He is really good at doing very little grinding to set them up, but that does not mean you HAVE to have a perfectly set bevel to get a good shave, it just helps tremendously.
BTW: I've had blades from whippeddog, I had one from SRD and also 2 from Dr matt in my day. Dr Matt's edges are by far the best, that guy really has a knack for this so if your looking for a honing I can't recommend him enough, so fast too. he ships out like the next day!

Thanks! I actually went down to my man cave and fired up my UFO LED lighting system, and ran a bevel set. No change. I took out the loop and wouldn't you know it from the halfway point to the end the blade was rough! It looked like shavings. I played with setting a bevel for 15 minutes and could not get it on the Belgium Blue. Frustrated I took the Guangxi stone mixed up a slurry with the dmt plate and no joke, smoothed out a bevel. I lapped the blue before also so thats not it. I took off the tape from the spine and ran it on the Coticule and it is all perfect. After reading your last post maybe it is the geometry of the blade. The blade is perfect and mirror smooth all the way down now. I will shave with it in the morning.

I've seen DrMatt's video with the razor tapping test. I can't remember which razor it was, but I've got one somewhere that I corrected.

It does help, but in the long run as I get better at honing I find it easier to contour my stroke to the razor, rather than contouring the razor to fit my stroke.

This also depends on the razor in question. If it's a cheap hardware store razor, or something someone else already whipped half to death that I'm trying to bring back into shaving form, might as well go the extra mile and rework some geometry while I'm at it.

A Wade & Butcher or similarly nice collectible? I'd probably just polish it up and let the geometry stay as-is. Might even take to honing with a layer of tape to protect the spine.

Personally, I just tape the spine and hone the way the razor wants to be honed. By that I mean I adjust the type of stroke I use to the razor. Most of my razors have some sort of warp/twist to them. I just want the two bevels to meet all along the edge. When that happens I consider the bevel as being set. The bevel itself may be a nice thin even one or a wavy one at that point. To me it matters not what the bevel looks like. It is the edge that shaves not the bevel. Seems to work without grinding on the spine but grinding on the spine is another method.

Bob

Originally Posted by 74d34h

Thanks! I actually went down to my man cave and fired up my UFO LED lighting system, and ran a bevel set. No change. I took out the loop and wouldn't you know it from the halfway point to the end the blade was rough! It looked like shavings. I played with setting a bevel for 15 minutes and could not get it on the Belgium Blue. Frustrated I took the Guangxi stone mixed up a slurry with the dmt plate and no joke, smoothed out a bevel. I lapped the blue before also so thats not it. I took off the tape from the spine and ran it on the Coticule and it is all perfect. After reading your last post maybe it is the geometry of the blade. The blade is perfect and mirror smooth all the way down now. I will shave with it in the morning.

Great to read your razor is now ready for the job. I just like to mention that a BBW is not really a bevel setter. Way too slow. For setting bevels you better take a synthetic hone. Unless you have plenty elbow grease.

What would you suggest for a stone? Would I progress off another stone to the blue, then the coticule?

I used to use a Shapton 1.5K then 5K and then straight to the coticule.

Originally Posted by 74d34h

What would you suggest for a stone? Would I progress off another stone to the blue, then the coticule?

The coticule can do anything the blue would, and better if you're proficient with slulrry. IMO anyway. I'm kinda surprised you were able to get it set with the C12K, which tells me the previous work on the BBW/coticule must've had it very, very close.

I'm kind of in league with Kees. A 1K synthetic bevel setter is perhaps the best place to start if the issue is more than you're willing to deal with on the coticule. Shapton/Naniwa/Norton/King in no particular order will get the job done. After that you can bounce to the BBW or slurry up the coticule and dilute your way up to a finished edge. Or do like Kees and get a synthetic 4/5/6 K and shift from there to the coticule. Whatever method suits you best.