Thread: Honing Razors With A Jig and Stationary Blade

Straight razors have a built in "jig", and that is the relationship of the spine to the width of the razor it's self. The angle, if I am not mistaken, is about 17degres. Others will correct me if I am wrong.

Originally Posted by guitstik

Straight razors have a built in "jig", and that is the relationship of the spine to the width of the razor it's self. The angle, if I am not mistaken, is about 17degres. Others will correct me if I am wrong.

IIRC it was figured out that optimum angle, depending on the width of the blade, is between 15 and 17 degrees, thereabouts.

There was another long thread on honing razors on a commercially made gizmo that is mainly used for knives. Runs about $300.00 IIRC. General consensus, except for two advocates who've long since gone, was that it is not practical for a straight razor. Reinventing the wheel type of thing. YMMV.

Before straight razors I have sharpened quite a few different blades and tools and have used a commercial sharpener similar to what you have made. There are some issues that make the process not really practical. PM me if you want the long winded version. Where I was wanting to go with my post is that most thing that I have sharpened are quite different than a straight razor. The principal of creating the bevel to the perfect apex and then polishing it throughout the grit range is the same for all sharpening. Your understanding of that portion will give you a leg up in straight razor sharpening. The geometry of how a straight razor is designed is very different. In part because we don't establish the angle of the apex when we hone. That angle is inherent in the design of the blade. Because when you sharpen the blade, it is laid flat on the hone, that is how the angle is made. If you follow along with how to sharpen a razor from the perspective of standard honing practice, and apply your knowledge of sharpening to that model it will not be that hard for you. On the other hand if you treat your razor like a chisel or a knife, it will not shave well and you may bang your head against the proverbial wall for a while. All sharpening employs the same concept, we just which up the technique for different sharpened objects, so they can perform at their best, doing what they are designed to do.

I think the flaw, if any, in your process is the "Stationary Blade". When honing a razor, the one thing that is "not" always stationary is the blade. It is constantly maneuvered by an experienced honer over a stationary hone to keep contact with the sharpening surface.

With the thick rigid blade in your image, the sharpening rod by the sheer rigidness of the blade always adjusts to the blade edge. With the thin and "not rigid" edge of the straight razor, this does not happen.

Honing a razor requires the hand of an experienced razor honer to bring the blade over a honing surface while keeping the edge/bevel in contact with the hone.

Your system seems to keep a static blade in contact with the honing surface by the the rigidness of the blade. Honing a razor keeps the edge of the razor in contact with the honing surface by the skill of the of the honer.

Regard,

Howard

Being an engineer myself I can see where you are coming from. I have sharpened knives for the greater part of my life and always I returned to the traditional way of sharpening on whetstones. I find that professional mechanical sharpening tools make the knife or whatever other implement wear out far too quickly. This it fine if you are a woodworking professional and do not care to spend too much time sharpening. Having the blade in your hand, one has far better control over the process.

This is even more so with razors, the amount of metal to be taken off to sharpen the blade is so very little that not ever do you want to lose control of the process. Mastering it takes a while, which surely will go a lot quicker with good advise and instructions.

Theoretically the sharpening process of razors is not unlike knives, but it is far more critical and way less controllable, The cutting edge of the razor so much thinner than any knife. It is a skill as much as it is an art and it requires a very light touch which only comes with lots of time and practice.

It may help to watch Lynn Abrams video's on Youtube, they really give an excellent impression of what to look for and how to do it. I think it's a great place to start.

Good luck,
John.

First off I want to thank everyone for this being the first thread on this subject that I have seen not turn into a bash fest.

Bladeon, my advice would be to have someone hone your razor professionally. Then if you can, get another razor and hone it on your jig. Then see what the difference is. That's really all you can do. You can build a hundred contraptions but you got to test it to know if it works or not. I don't hold much hope for it but hey people didn't hold much hope for the Wright brothers either and we know how that turned out.....

I'm very new to straight shaving and honing razors myself. Your invention is good for knives. In fact it looks a lot like the design of the "Wicked Edge" knife sharpener. This system is considered one of the best designs for sharpening systems. Another system is the Edge Pro which I have. I tried the Edge Pro on a razor and while these systems control the angle for you (compared to free hand sharpening) they are completely unnecessary for razors. As someone else mentioned the angle is controlled by using the spine. I used an angle cube (digital level) to check the edge angle on my two razors. One is 16 degrees and the other (newer) is 20 degrees inclusive. These are approx with about +/- .5 degrees. The spine on the newer razor is thicker which will result in a higher edge angle. The one with a 16 degree edge angle is a gift from a friend when I started straight shaving. The edge was pretty damaged and it had no handle. I worked on the edge and made a handle and now it's a pretty nice razor as far as performance goes IMO. The handle isn't the prettiest thing in the world but it works well. It has seen much use and sharpening if the appearance of the spine is any judge. It obviously has been thinned by the stone over many many honings.

Another thing about your system is a razor requires a super light touch due to the edge being so thin and fragile. While this light touch is possible with a system like yours it takes a bit of practice. There are tons of videos on using the Wicked Edge system. Those things sell starting at about $300 or so. The price goes up with additional accessories, stone types or grits, etc.

Jack

there is a built in jig on every razor I have seen ,, the spine , but it looks cool tc

Originally Posted by cosperryan

First off I want to thank everyone for this being the first thread on this subject that I have seen not turn into a bash fest.

Bladeon, my advice would be to have someone hone your razor professionally. Then if you can, get another razor and hone it on your jig. Then see what the difference is. That's really all you can do. You can build a hundred contraptions but you got to test it to know if it works or not. I don't hold much hope for it but hey people didn't hold much hope for the Wright brothers either and we know how that turned out.....

Using your system to hone razors will have the same problem I had when I tried to use my Edge Pro. With razors and conventional honing methods the angle is controlled using the spine. By using a jig system you will need to increase the angle so the stones or abrasives don't touch the spine. This is the only way the system will be of any benefit. It would be as if your razor didn't have a spine that is much thicker than the rest of the blade. Then you could set your system to about 8 degrees per side to get the average angle on straight razors.

I've put tons of time (and money) into learning the finer points of sharpening knives in the past 5 years or so. While I know your design is a great one I don't think it's the best tool for straight razors. I could be very wrong though.

There is another BIG problem Ijust thought of. Your clamp will need to be modified somehow to hold the razor at exactly (or very damn close) to 90 degrees. This will be a bit difficult with the shape of a straight razor. This is a common problem with every knife sharpening system that uses a clamp to hold the blade. This is a problem that is fairly easily dealt with but it will be an issue with straight razors.

Jack

I am probably the very last person here to comment. I am still learning to hone razors. I have a lot of experience sharpening all sorts of other tools, so there is some knowledge transfer. The biggest difference is feel and appearance.

I have some old family blades and I purchased a 'practice razor' from vintage blades. I spent time on the various practice razors using whetstones and a jeweler's loupe to develop some understanding. A 10x loupe and a Veho USB microscope are useful.

After about two months my expensive real razor wasn't shaving as well, gulp. Time to try it live. I started with just refreshing with an abrasive paste (I screwed that up eventually) and it worked well. Then I tried just going to a finishing hone. That worked too, but eventually I needed to actually hone the razor (4K, 8K, 12K, CrOx, and stropping). So I took a deep breath and gave it a try (the practice razors would shave so I thought worse case I pay someone to fix it).

Well it worked well. I am also an engineer and take careful notes while learning. I've also sharpened a lot of knives. The biggest differences have already been mentioned: angle is set by the spine.

The other difference for me is there is a lot more 'feel' and visuals coming back from the razor. The edge is fragile and flexible. After sharpening then polishing matters a lot. Visually watching the stone slurry and swarf rise up the edge gives really good feedback. Also the feel of the draw on the stone seems better than when I do other tools.

I think it is because you hold the blade with a light touch and draw gently without much to any pressure. Your touch receptors are more sensitive. With a light touch you finger tip can detect about .0001 inch difference in height, if you press hard you lose a lot of sensitivity.

I'd have to be one of these guys who has hone thousands of razors to have real good input, but this is the perspective from a beginner's eyes. I also watched and read everything here I could find about honing a razor. It all helped. I have honed the daily shaver successfully. Some of the information here on blade geometry was very helpful.

Good luck with your quest! I'd go with hand honing on a good stone to start, but I'm not smart enough to invent anything new yet. I'm still learning the tried and true methods. As someone else said, one never knows you may figure out something new. Just think about the fact that the edge is very flexible.

Good luck with the invention,

Ed