Thread: Japanese Nagura - Honing Thought of the Day

Originally Posted by gssixgun

LOL I found the exact same ratio I kept 1 outta 4

I later found the Hard scratchy ones could be polished and used like an oil (Using something slick) stone with decent results..

Lucky you. My first one was a good one, and I sold it thinking all were like it and I could just get a different one. I bought three more trying to find one as good and gave up. Two I have (one is oiled), and the third was so soft I figured it would make good naguras and cut it up. Same with an aoto that I got from fujibato -too soft to do anything, but not a bad nagura of the only other option is to throw it away.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

Of course it is easy to see why the stones would traditionally be used together since they are found close to each other, and because of centuries of this tradition, the skills of using them together would be highly refined. But I can't connect locality, similar composition, and tradition, with "made for each other"

I said it wrong! What I meant was they developed this system by experimenting with different stones with many different qualities. So in the process this is the system they came up with. COuld there be better nagura stones to be used instead of these? Sure. What are they and where are they? I have no idea!

I haven't played around much with Nagura's on other stones than my JNats to be honest.
A great idea for some playtime with my hones though, so I'll give it a go myself.
As I don't own a PHIG anymore I thought I should try the same thing on my Charnley forrest instead to see what results that would yield.
Lord knows that thing is hard enough

Doesn't a nagura in sense take the place of a synthetic griit? A thousand plus year old system. Why not just use the synthetic? In sense I have experimented and lately have been using cotis, and when jnat honing because it was force feed to me only use naguras on my Jnats does it create. Better edge who knows .. It is a lot easier just to,use the synthetics.. If presented with a choice years ago would they choose the naguras or good old synthetics ..?? Naguras are a sense of challenge and as My man Bill says do react differently on different stones... But I have learned by doing.. Just do it is my motto I don't have a phig but look forward to your results..

it will be interesting to see the results from the Mikawa nagura on a different "platform". I have tried slurry from awasedo, for example uchigumori, suita, and Jnat finishers on other platforms and it doesn't work - apparently the host stone needs to be energized by the slurry into continuously releasing its own. Slurry without replenishment only lasts a time measured in seconds. Here's how my experiment came about.

I was interested in polishing knives, not honing a straight, and had the idea that I'd use small pieces of uchigumori or suita to create slurry that could be used on glass, felt, etc to create the kasumi finish since large pieces of pure uchigumori can literally be $6-10K, and are difficult if not impossible to even buy (not that I would!). Whhat I found, and Alex Gilmore independently when I discussed it with him, is that off the awasedo the slurry only polishes, you cannot create kasumi off the awasedo!

Alex had tried tomo slurry on glass and found the same result -without the host stone releasing its own slurry, the transferred slurry only polished and was depleted in a period probably best measured in seconds.

So I'm interested in hearing people's experiences!

BTW, I save the slurry from lapping my Jnats or spent tomo slurry on small pieces of lint-free paper and use them to clean my razors after use. I let them dry for storage the just spritz them lightly for use. Too much water leaves slurry on the blade. You can also use these slurry "wipes" to polish fountain pens and the most delicate finishes like polished gold. No kasumi.

Cheers, Steve

Great share Steve! I have quite a few stones and it seems there can be a big difference between them even though the naguras are the same. That tells me there is definitely something going on with the base stone. Some stones scratch more water only, others not so much, the most common thing Ive found with all of them is the slurry acts like a buffer or "oil" to work together to REDUCE(i wont say remove as the haze even a bright finish has scratches)these and further refine the edge. BUT some stones are scratchy slurry or not. To think of a finishing stone as inert? Nah. I really dont think so unless I dont believe my own eyes. If this was so then they would all produce identical scratch patterns, haze and finish the same using the same naguras. Great discussion gentlemen! I am enjoying this thoroughly.

Seems like the slurry needs to have purchase on the base platform, so even if the base stone doesn't contribute abrasives to the slurry the purchase it gives could explain some of the differences seen among base platforms.

Originally Posted by Steve56

it will be interesting to see the results from the Mikawa nagura on a different "platform". I have tried slurry from awasedo, for example uchigumori, suita, and Jnat finishers on other platforms and it doesn't work - apparently the host stone needs to be energized by the slurry into continuously releasing its own. Slurry without replenishment only lasts a time measured in seconds. Here's how my experiment came about.

I was interested in polishing knives, not honing a straight, and had the idea that I'd use small pieces of uchigumori or suita to create slurry that could be used on glass, felt, etc to create the kasumi finish since large pieces of pure uchigumori can literally be $6-10K, and are difficult if not impossible to even buy (not that I would!). Whhat I found, and Alex Gilmore independently when I discussed it with him, is that off the awasedo the slurry only polishes, you cannot create kasumi off the awasedo!

Alex had tried tomo slurry on glass and found the same result -without the host stone releasing its own slurry, the transferred slurry only polished and was depleted in a period probably best measured in seconds.

So I'm interested in hearing people's experiences!

BTW, I save the slurry from lapping my Jnats or spent tomo slurry on small pieces of lint-free paper and use them to clean my razors after use. I let them dry for storage the just spritz them lightly for use. Too much water leaves slurry on the blade. You can also use these slurry "wipes" to polish fountain pens and the most delicate finishes like polished gold. No kasumi.

Cheers, Steve

Well I tried the PHIG last night as I had it out to finish a couple three Heljies so after I was done with them, I tried working up a slurry but I noticed the Grey from the PHIG in with Nagura slurry so I put it down as a Failure to what I was trying to achieve..

Keep in mind it very well might have worked just fine with honing a razor but That is not quite what I am looking at here I already know the PHIG that I have will finish a razor just fine all by it's lonesome...

Phig slurry is coarse so far as I have noticed....coarse and slow for how coarse it is. The same slowness is probably what allows a nice polish job on a good one that can hold its grains in place, I guess.

No matter how hard the base stone is some will come through on the slurry especially with botan and the coarser nagura. I think the magic is in that mixture.