Troublesome TI that wont take a hone more than 8-10k

Hi All! So I jumped into this amazing hobby about 7 months ago with a brand new Hart Steel "Not A Replica" that was gifted to me. I took to straights like a fish to water and within a month, was already eyeing up my next toy, which I wanted to be a hollow ground. With razors in shortage this summer, I reluctantly went to AOS to pick up one of their AOS etched TI's and have been regretting it... I love their product and continue to buy it today, but I don't think I could ever purchase any more hardware. The story begins....

My first faulty assumption was that the TI quality would be in line with my Hart. WRONG. I grabbed the razor never inspecting it in the store, got home, wiped off the grease and the blade was totally warped and the bevel was completely jacked up. Wide in some spots to nearly non existent in others. I went to take it back to the shop (took several visits) and I finally with the manager, who clearly knew what she was doing, immediately saw the problem, and exchanged for a new blade. A quick inspection showed even hone wear, and an even edge.

I shaved with the factory edge for a few weeks which was nice, but after making the newbie mistake of rapping my Hart on the faucet during a rinse, I figured I would get both blades dialed in by a pro. I drove over to Ken Rup's place (RupRazor) to fix my Hart and tune up my TI. While honing, Ken told me that TI had been having quality issues in the past, but that they should have been fixed. Being the awesome guy Ken his, he showed me the magnified view of the blade as he moved to each hone, and explained the progression. When he got to the 20k though, the edge crumbled. He took it back two more times, and eventually it held, but he had never seen that before. Also noting the slight warp in this blade too, that I did not originally notice.

Fast forward a few more months of shaving and reading SRP forums about honing, and I picked up my Chinese 12k for bimonthly touch-ups and eventually a Norton 4k/8k combo. Never putting the TI to a stone myself, I decided to give it a whirl. I was effortlessly popping off hairs after the 8k, and took it to the 12k for finishing and it happened again. Just like on Ken's 20k Shapton, the razor became useless... I tried taking it back to 8k then 12k a few times with no results and settled for shaving off of the 8k.

Is this common with TIs? I have honed my Hart once (and some 12k touch-ups) and have since purchased a Dovo and have no issues there either, so I know my skills are well enough to get a smooth edge.

I haven't honed up a TI before :shrug: Have you tried a layer or two of tape to adjust the bevel angle?

I have a couple of razors that exhibit that for some reason. I think I've worked through with one that wasn't ground perfectly from the factory, and another I'm still working on. They would pop hair via HHT cleanly off a 5k Superstone or my JNat pre-finisher, 5-8 k range. Then they seem like the HHT gets much worse off the fine JNat finisher.

I don't know how it happens with TIs, all of the new ones I have are fine though I wouldn't call the grinding the best.

Cheers, Steve

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Originally Posted by JustAKnick

Hi All! So I jumped into this amazing hobby about 7 months ago with a brand new Hart Steel "Not A Replica" that was gifted to me. I took to straights like a fish to water and within a month, was already eyeing up my next toy, which I wanted to be a hollow ground. With razors in shortage this summer, I reluctantly went to AOS to pick up one of their AOS etched TI's and have been regretting it... I love their product and continue to buy it today, but I don't think I could ever purchase any more hardware. The story begins....

My first faulty assumption was that the TI quality would be in line with my Hart. WRONG. I grabbed the razor never inspecting it in the store, got home, wiped off the grease and the blade was totally warped and the bevel was completely jacked up. Wide in some spots to nearly non existent in others. I went to take it back to the shop (took several visits) and I finally with the manager, who clearly knew what she was doing, immediately saw the problem, and exchanged for a new blade. A quick inspection showed even hone wear, and an even edge.

I shaved with the factory edge for a few weeks which was nice, but after making the newbie mistake of rapping my Hart on the faucet during a rinse, I figured I would get both blades dialed in by a pro. I drove over to Ken Rup's place (RupRazor) to fix my Hart and tune up my TI. While honing, Ken told me that TI had been having quality issues in the past, but that they should have been fixed. Being the awesome guy Ken his, he showed me the magnified view of the blade as he moved to each hone, and explained the progression. When he got to the 20k though, the edge crumbled. He took it back two more times, and eventually it held, but he had never seen that before. Also noting the slight warp in this blade too, that I did not originally notice.

Fast forward a few more months of shaving and reading SRP forums about honing, and I picked up my Chinese 12k for bimonthly touch-ups and eventually a Norton 4k/8k combo. Never putting the TI to a stone myself, I decided to give it a whirl. I was effortlessly popping off hairs after the 8k, and took it to the 12k for finishing and it happened again. Just like on Ken's 20k Shapton, the razor became useless... I tried taking it back to 8k then 12k a few times with no results and settled for shaving off of the 8k.

Is this common with TIs? I have honed my Hart once (and some 12k touch-ups) and have since purchased a Dovo and have no issues there either, so I know my skills are well enough to get a smooth edge.

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I hope this is a random instance?


Mike

Since you were there, what did Ken do to get it to hold an edge?

Your C12K is most probably a long way from a Shapton 20k.

Any of a number of reasons could cause edge crumbling, the main one an inexperienced honer. Don’t take this the wrong way, but honing especially finish honing a razor is not as easy as someone like Ken can make it look.

Find local mentor and have your razor and technique examined.

This is what I would try as well, the edge might be to thin to hold up, adding tape will increase the angle and add some strength to the bevel. This has worked great on crumbly edges for me on several different razors

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Originally Posted by MattCB

I haven't honed up a TI before :shrug: Have you tried a layer or two of tape to adjust the bevel angle?

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I would say 20k is to much for the edge, I never had or use 20 k stone, but I think is because too much pressure on the blade.
If you press hard, the edge tend to crumple. Also try to back edge , leading with the spine. I finish all my razor keeping the stones, coticule or Escher on my hand. I can feel the blade much better. I think TI can take easy 12-15 k unless is faulty forged.

Ken honed with tape, and I followed suit since I assumed re-setting the bevel without tape would take some time without a 1k. Maybe I should try a second layer to finish? That's what he put on my Hart on the last few strokes.

A thought here, Gentlemen. It is entirely possible to have overhoned the razor prior to the finisher. If it has a 'foil' edge off the last hone, (which is easily done!) then subsequent higher grits would possibly make the problems worse. If it were mine, I would dull it on a glass bottle and start over with less! JMHO

Honestly, it was a few months ago so I can't remember clearly, but I think he brought it back to an 8 or 10k, then to the 20k a few times until it got there.

I agree, I wouldn't even try to say the C12k compares to the Shapton and my skills definitely are not there yet as I can count on one hand how many times I've honed. I just find it very interesting that I can hone and finish on the 12k with my Hart no problem, but this TI just wont work with me.