Thread: Grit of a yellow coticule

Here's a question that came up:

Do different Belgian Yellow Coticules have different grits? I've read everything from them having 8k to 12k. Some people go from an 8k Norton to a coticule but if the coticule is 8k, why?

I have a coticule with ivory color and I feel that is 7000 (norton 8000 gives me better edge) and a mustard color that feel that is 11000 to12000

Couple possibilities:

There are competing grit rating systems. IIRC the Japanese system indicates the average particle size, while the American system (mesh system) measures the maximum particle size. Norton and Shapton use different systems, for example - the Norton 8k has 3 micron particles , while the Shapton 8k has 1.8 micron particles.

Secondly, many natural stones cut slower than the synthetic hones, and produce a finer edge than their grit rating would lead you to believe. Many guys on this forum think the yellow coticule produces an edge similar to what a 12k Norton would produce if such a thing existed.

Originally Posted by Yannis

I have a coticule with ivory color and I feel that is 7000 (norton 8000 gives me better edge) and a mustard color that feel that is 11000 to12000

Yannis, are you going on the basis of the edge it produces and how it shaves, or on the basis of what the stone feels like to the touch?

Are you using the same rubbing stone for each?

Originally Posted by dylandog

Yannis, are you going on the basis of the edge it produces and how it shaves, or on the basis of what the stone feels like to the touch?

Are you using the same rubbing stone for each?

I am going on the basis of of the edge it produces and how it shaves
I use the same rubbing stone

(the ivory colour has a surface with pores like leather, the mustards color surface is plain like the norton) the ivory is 7,5x20 cm the mustard is 4x20 cm)
with the ivory the razor fails to pass HHT and the shave is not good as with my older mustard color coticule

Originally Posted by Yannis

I am going on the basis of of the edge it produces and how it shaves
I use the same rubbing stone

(the ivory colour has a surface with pores like leather, the mustards color surface is plain like the norton) the ivory is 7,5x20 cm the mustard is 4x20 cm)
with the ivory the razor fails to pass HHT and the shave is not good as with my older mustard color coticule

Something is wrong. I *can* pass HHT off 4K without any problems, and once I was goofing around so I worked to pass HHT off 1K - which I did. The grit size 7K (or whatever it is) should not be an issue really

Cheers
Ivo

I agree with Ivo. Passing the hair test off a coarse grit is no problem, I've done it off a 1k hone as well. Shaved terrible at that grit, but it would pop hair like mad.

Originally Posted by Yannis

the ivory colour has a surface with pores like leather, the mustards color surface is plain like the norton) the ivory is 7,5x20 cm the mustard is 4x20 cm)
with the ivory the razor fails to pass HHT and the shave is not good as with my older mustard color coticule

This is interesting. I also have two coticules, one newly quarried and the other vintage. The new one is the color of butter and has faint, lacey white speckles and "scales" on it, like a chunk of true Italian parmesan; the vintage one is solid mustard. (Sounds like you might be using different metaphors for the same thing.) Next to each other, they look like totally different stones. But they both seem to cut the same; all the variation I can find seems to depend on what kind of slurry (thick, thin, watery vs. viscous) I raise before honing.

Yup - I have 3 Coticules, 2 guaranteed kosher naturals and one vintage man-bonded combo (which I thought was kosher but may be wrong). The two naturals are quite similar, and very different from the creamy / ivory colored vintage.

Having said this, the vintage works just as well (at least) as the other two, and actually feels a bit softer.

Cheers
Ivo

You have to remember that synthetic hones are manmade from ceramic particales that are uniform and then they are cemented together. Diamond hones are industrial grade diamonds sorted by size and or crushed to uniform size and cemented to a manmade substrate As a result they are all the same and give uniform results. Natural hones are just pieces of rock. Now let me put my geology background to work here. A mineral is a homogenious substance like quartz or calcite or sapphire while a rock is a collection of minerals like granite or basalt. A Hone is a rock so its a collection of minerals. The ones we are concerned with are the mineral garnets that are mixed into the matrix and do the cutting. Now a hone stone has to be very special. If the garnets are too big they won't do anything. If they are too small they won't do anything. If the matrix is too friable and it falls apart too easily it won't do anything and if its too hard it will not work properly. Also there are many different varieties of garnets. There are iron rich ones, calcium rich ones, magnesium rich ones, chromium rich ones and on and on so the type of garnet has to be the right one too. Some are harder than others. Also the xtls can vary from cubes to 12 sides dodecahedrons so all this has to be right also.So all these variables have to be just right. Since its natural stuff as you go from quarry to quarry and quarry face to quarry face the vein with the stuff we all want changes as its mined out.

So the point is that from week to week and sometimes day to day the product will be different and have different cutting characteristics so you just have to rely on the seller and his suppliers to obtain consistant stock. So depending on where you obtained you hone from the coticule might be closer to 8K or closer to 10K or closer to 12K. It can all vary. You really can't compare different stones from different locales. So if you want a Coticule that's say 10K you need to find a reliable supplier who can supply that type of stone for you.

Clear as mud?