Thread: 1k/3k pyramid honing

Good day sirs.

I've been setting a few bevels recently and feel I'm learning all the time, a thought come to me about using a 1k/3k or 1k/5k pyramid to set a bevel that has no issues. This came about because I brought a CV Heljestrand before Christmas and it appeared to be unused, under magnification there was no bevel at all. I put on one layer of tape on and started with circles and x strokes on my 1k chosera with slurry, after about 3 sets, still no bevel. This steel is hard, I'd like to think of it as the Chuck Norris of razors! Anyway I tried a few sets doing 45 degree x strokes with and without slurry. I eventually set the Heli, it passed LRT and MMT and under a loupe looked very nice however it wouldn't cut arm hair, If it cant cut arm hair it cant cut face hair. I decided to go on my 5k super and after two sets of twenty it was popping hairs very well indeed. Is this just one of those things as the 5k is refining the edge or would doing a 1k and 3k/5k pyramid help make the process easier or quicker with hard steel?
I know I didn't actually do a pyramid but I cant help thinking it would have helped or am I thinking too much into this?

Many thanks for any help

Mark

What's MMT?

To answer your question, I don't think a 1k 5k pyramid would help set the bevel. I have never done a stroke count based pyramid, but I often step backwards a stone if I feel the need. My experience with back stepping is that the lower grit stone behaves finer on the back step than it did in the normal progression. So I would think in a 1k 5k pyramid the 1k would be behaving more fine than it's 1k grit and not be speeding things up over just staying on the 1k. The 1k 5k pyramid would of course be faster than setting the bevel at 5k except for the extra time of switching back and forth.

I don't have a lot of experience with slurries, but the little I do have makes me think that they round the edge a bit when done at low grits. I think they definitely speed the process but need to be followed with a fair amount of no slurry work to get back to the actual edge.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

What's MMT?

To answer your question, I don't think a 1k 5k pyramid would help set the bevel.

I agree; and to that I will add what's LRT?

Bevel setting is the removal of steel until the two planes we call bevels meet in a single line to form the edge. Everything after the bevel set is just refining the edge. The tests are done just to confirm that the bevel is fully set.

Utopian,

I think LRT is light reflecting test. What are your favorite tests at bevel set?

Thanks gents.
MMT magic marker test. LRT Light reflection test.
It was just a thought, I am having a play around with some razors and am finding some easy to hone and others, although with no issues, are a pain to to bevel set. Still going to have a go and see what I find.
Might try: 20x1k 5x5k, 15x1k 10x5k, 10x1k 15x5k and so on.
Just like messing around with razors!

These are not my photos but they are the same Zeiss stereomicroscope and Brock Magiscope that I have.

I use my thumb but I trust my scopes.

You can't see. If a bevel is set.. Thee are many tests to check to see if the bevel is set.. Thumb pad test thumb nail,test. The thumb nail test IMO is the easiest to learn and I still use it. If u pass the tnt and u get certain feedback from the hones such as water easily riding up the edge .. It's time to move on.. Do a google search in the search bar here for thumb nail,test it will explain it better

I can see if a bevel is set.

I have been around a few excellent honers who thought their bevels were fully set but I could see that it was not completely done. I'm taking nothing away from their abilities, but a microscopic examination can pick up things that even an expert thumb cannot. I can and do use the standard tests, but a scope is a valuable aid.

Utopian,

What are some key things you look for when checking for bevel set under mag. I would understand seeing the stria going all the way to what may look like the apex, but are there any other things u look for? I have in many cases looked for only that under 45x, and it looked as if the stria was to the end,but I was missing the bevel set slightly. So what could i be missing?

Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

Utopian,

What are some key things you look for when checking for bevel set under mag. I would understand seeing the stria going all the way to what may look like the apex, but are there any other things u look for? I have in many cases looked for only that under 45x, and it looked as if the stria was to the end,but I was missing the bevel set slightly. So what could i be missing?

Not to answer for Utopian, but I use a light source shining 'edge on' to pick up any reflections from the edge. For me, I find 100x to be the sweet spot of seeing enough detail and still being able to inspect the whole edge from both sides and with different light angles if I want in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm looking forward to reading Utopian's response as I've only been using a scope a short time and I am still learning.