Thread: Joseph allen honing issue

Well… there’s your problem…

Pastes are a whole different animal. When learning to hone, eliminate the most variables possible, eg use known synthetic hone progression. And this in not honing it is pasted stropping, though, it has been use for years.

Paste are subject to a number of variables, grit size is but, one, grit shape, grit purity in size and grit, hardness of substrate and most important amount of pressure use, and using a spray, the quality of the suspension is equally important. You cannot just mix diamond powder with water and expect consistent, repeatable results.

Not saying it can’t be done, but you have probably introduced the largest amount of variables into a progression to hone a razor.

And we are not even talking about the largest one… learning to strop. Stropping ability will largely, determine the results.
Oh and by the way Diamonds will remove equal amounts of steel from the spine as the bevel. Diamonds and pressure are notorious for chipping edges, they are very aggressive. Also when buying diamond, not all are alike, you really do get what you pay for especially in the nano grits.

Do yourself a favor and buy a 4/8k Norton, the 1k King is a fine bevel setter. You may have to remove some steel from the edge, to get to good steel now.

Interesting, about the hair test… in another recent post some experts, were raving about it … Humm.

What you're saying makes sense, I totally understand how aggressive diamonds are and I assume they could cause fracturing in the steels surface, at least I have seen it under magnification with larger grit sized steel hones. I wonder why one razor would have an awesome edge while the other was not good enough to scrape paint. Funny things, razors, I use the same setup for my knives and all my wood working tools and have felt up and too this point there is no reason for me to go back to synthetic water stones. I may have to revisit that when the funds become available.

What Euclid said is perfectly correct. Honing and "pasted" stropping are two different physical activities.
The binder in the sharpening stone gives and controls a certain consistency that's not available elsewhere. Consistency (predictability) is an important element in achieving desired results. The evidence to this fact is in what you're seeing between your two razors. Sharpening or creating a sharp edge is a controlled activity, the greater the control, the better the results.

I understand the cost factor in affording the right sharpening tools. We often discuss the compromises that alternative tools gives/creates. Because a razor requires a precision edge to shave properly and comfortably, compromises are both felt and seen. It's a joy to help one another in this endeavor, the right tool for the right job cannot be over-stated. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

And that, is the biggest difference in sharpening tools and knives, a nano serrated edge for most knives and tools is a good thing.

And why the hair test is so unreliable, a serrated edge will easily cut hair, but you will not want to shave with it.

Sharp is easy, it is comfort and smooth that is difficult with vintage razors. Sharp is only half of the issue. And you can’t cheat, by just polishing an edge. For example you can polish your highest grit edge to a smooth edge with other paste, but it probably will not hold up under shaving.

A good strong, keen and comfortable edge, must be built… like a house, beginning with a foundation…

Most folks do not understand how fragile a razor edge is.

I use diamonds for most all my knifes & of course my wife...not razors as the sound advice above references.

just broke down and ordered naniwa 5k,8k,12k stones, hopefully it makes a difference otherwise i may have to work on my technique instead ; )

They won’t hone themselves, and they are not magic, but those are great stones. With what you have, you are set for life.
While you are waiting, look at the library and the honing videos from Lynn and GSSixgun.

Once you set the bevel, the rest is just polishing, sounds like you are already familiar with that, but there is some technique and much less pressure than with knives and tools.