I have a razor here that I got in a group. Later tonight I was going hone it to 12k and see what the shave was like straight off of that. Before I got the Naniwa I was getting great shaves off just the Norton. At the same time I got the Naniwa though I started using CrOx so I never have tried to shave directly off of it. Will add more laps on the strop too. May do something like shave half my face immediately off the stone and then do something like 40 laps on linen and 100 on leather. Might be interesting to see the comparison.