Thread: Getting a straight as Sharp as an DE blade?

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. Badgister does charge 40$ which is steep but if he can give me some honing pointers it might be worth it.

Here's how I honed my razor:
-I did the circle technique on the 4000 extensively on one side because the bevel was very uneven on that side. The bevel was very thin in the middle of the blade and getting wider at the edges. I did improve it a lot but it's not as perfect as one side which is perfectly straight and even.

I then proceeded to do 40 passes on the 4k. At this point, the blade wasn't super grabby, I've never managed to get it much more than pocket knife sharp on the Norton stone. I did 40 passes on the 8k and it felt about the same. Frustrated, I went back for another 40 passes on the 4k and 40 on the 8k and it felt the same.

I then went and did 40 passes on the green chromium oxide. After that the blade felt very sharp and definitely grabby on the thumb pad test. Definitely would cut the skin with very slight pressure. So I did 40 passes on the red chromium oxide and it was even sharper. The. I wiped the blade and gave it 50 passes on my brand new strop. At this point the blade was still sharp but ever so slightly duller than when it çam of the red chromium oxide.

So I get the impression that with the Norton, I'm just setting the bevel and not actually getting the blade very sharp. I don't even know if I could shave with a blade come right of the 8k, don't think it would be nice. I feel like only the balsa and chromium oxide are giving me the signing edge that really works with little effort. Then again, am I stropping too much? I usually strop the blade 50 passes (50 times to and from so 100 total).

Thanks for any insight.

First, here is more then you ever wanted to know about getting the most out of the Norton 4/8 from Newbs Pros and everyone inbetween

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html


Second to answer you original question using numbers gleaned from the Vorheaven paper

He measured the Sharpest DE edge at .31 Microns and the Sharpest SR at .32 Microns these numbers are from memory I am not trying to find the paper and read it all over again you can if you wish...

Hairs begin to cut at about .50 Microns which is reached at a pretty low grit the refinement and smoothness comes from the very small threshold between the two.
Basically you can shave at the Bevel set if you are doing it correctly, in fact a great test and learning exercise of honing is to stop after each hone, strop 20 laps on leather, and to shave, it teaches you quite a bit about what each hone brings to the table and how well you are using them

But most people won't do that because it takes time and is quite boring


ps: Yes you are using the pasted strop too much if I read that right 50 laps??? 1 stroke up, 1 stroke back = 1 Lap

In that thread there is mention of slurry. I don't use a stone to create slurry. Is that the ingredient that might be lacking for getting a sharper razor at the Norton stone step?

Originally Posted by MTLian

In that thread there is mention of slurry. I don't use a stone to create slurry. Is that the ingredient that might be lacking for getting a sharper razor at the Norton stone step?

Slurry is an added variable, I would stay away from adding variables until you start getting consistant results

I would drop the Pasted Strops, and concentrate on the Hone and learning it alone first, once you start getting good results then start adding one variable at a time and note the difference..

Often the problem with the Norton 4/8 is the 4k side of the stone it really has to be lapped smooth or you will be spinning you wheels

I found pressure to be the key for me to get a very good edge from the norton 8k. I do about 10-20 laps using 0 pressure and I find that gives me a smooth super sharp edge

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Slurry is an added variable, I would stay away from adding variables until you start getting consistant results

I would drop the Pasted Strops, and concentrate on the Hone and learning it alone first, once you start getting good results then start adding one variable at a time and note the difference..

Often the problem with the Norton 4/8 is the 4k side of the stone it really has to be lapped smooth or you will be spinning you wheels

I have indeed lapped my Norton stone when I bought it and lapped it again on 400 grit sand paper again before honing for good measure. I like your suggestion but I think I would have to acquire another razor first because right now I know that I can't get a good enough edge to shave comfortably. I don't want to go scraping the heck out of my face for some educational purpose. I can't see myself choosing not to use my balsa strop when I know a very sharp edge is easily attainable.

That being said, it is sharp but not as sharp as the DE that I tried. Again there is the variable of blade angle but that DE gave me a perfect close up shave in one pass with no against the grain second pass needed. The more I talk about it the more it makes me want to just switch to DEs altogether! I enjoy the big blade and artistry of the straight but if only I could get closer to the extreme sharpness I got from a fresh DE blade...

At least you are being honest with yourself

SR shaving is an investment in time, it really is, and if you are not willing to make that investment then yes a DE or even a Shavette style razor might be the path for you...

The Feather style SR's are awesome shavers and zero maintenance...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

At least you are being honest with yourself

SR shaving is an investment in time, it really is, and if you are not willing to make that investment then yes a DE or even a Shavette style razor might be the path for you...

The Feather style SR's are awesome shavers and zero maintenance...

But they work with an injection blade system right?

Originally Posted by MTLian

But they work with an injection blade system right?

Actually, it's not a question of time but a question of comfort. I use a straight because I can achieve a better shave with less irritation and less time than a multi blade system. It is also better for the environment and cost effective.

I just can't see myself intentionally shaving with a dull razor and I know my technique isn't good enough yet to shave right off a Norton stone. I mean, I could spend all afternoon going back and forth on my 4k stone, I don't feel the blade getting sharper. I just think that I am not setting a proper bevel. The first time I tried honing I wore the spine so it's not like I'm not patient or not willing to sit there scraping away for an hour but on hour or 10 hours of not getting a blade sharp isn't acheiving much. I swear I've watched Lynn's video 2 or three times and I'm trying to replicate his movements exactly but I get pocket knife sharp.

I never get tired of reading these threads about comparative sharpness - and I usually always make the same point. Once the bevel has been set properly and meets along the whole edge, is it possible for the blade to be any sharper? The fact that your DE blade feels sharper is, to my mind, simply that it is a thinner piece of steel behind the bevel.

Obviously, an experienced honer can finesse an edge so that it cuts better than an inexerienced honer can achieve - but I think Glen's point about shaving from a 1k hone is basically making the same point about a razor being sharp when the bevels meet.