I am able to get a comfortable shaving edge out of the cuticle and the thuri. It is certain I can learn to use both of these better and get a still better edge. There is a big difference, however, between the edges I get and can envision getting out of those stones and the edge of the Henckel or the edges Phil puts on razors. I'm trying to up my game without having to hone 1000 razors. Hopefully the 20k stone will help. I also have a 1k and 3k stone and do occasionally reset the bevel on my razors. I don't do it often but do do it.