Thread: Honing questions

Originally Posted by MJC

As Jimmy would say; "excuse me, while I kiss the sky"

Thank you...that makes so much "forehead slapping" sense...

I'm not getting the forehead slap, so I know I'm missing something important.

When I have put a pencil grid on the stone, I then use my DMT to lap the stone flat, with the idea being that once the pencil grid is gone, the stone is then flat i.,e properly "lapped", is this what you're saying Euclid440?

Originally Posted by Phrank

I'm not getting the forehead slap, so I know I'm missing something important.

When I have put a pencil grid on the stone, I then use my DMT to lap the stone flat, with the idea being that once the pencil grid is gone, the stone is then flat i.,e properly "lapped", is this what you're saying Euclid440?

The forehead slap for me was the realization that if the grid does not disappear almost instantly (a couple of figure 8's?) that the grid removal may be more from the slurry - that could be filling a void/pocket.

If I'm correct (and please chime in, don't be shy) if the grid does not disappear quickly I should re-lap until it does.

I'm going to go pour "something brown" in to a tumbler and think about this...

When I was working myself through the basics of honing I had similar problems. The higher the grit the worse the edge seemed to be. Turns out, I was not maxing out each stone. I had to look really close under good magnification to see where I was falling short. I really wish I could convey to you what I see and what I look for before moving on to the next grit. The basic ideas can be shared but the fine details are learned on the fly. The only thing I can say is that it should look clean and even at the cutting edge before you move on. And when you do, it should again look clean and even before you move to the next. It's not really possible to convey the fine details.

Originally Posted by Hthomas

I've only been honing for about 6 month and am able to get a good edge pretty consistently (still learning wedges).
After my 8k norton, my edges can pop arm hairs a 1/4" above my arm. However after taking that same edge to my 12k Shapton stone, it will no longer consistently pop hairs above my arm.
I that the 12k edges shave is a little less harsh but not much differance. I get great shaves even when I don't use the 12k.

Am I doing something wrong?

I don't have a Norton but anything my 8k Pro does the 12k does better. I suggest there is something amiss here.
After checking the flatness as advised, check that the edge is actually being polished by the 12 k.
A light touch will see the edge brightening before the shoulder of the bevel. You will need a loupe to see this.

Originally Posted by MJC

The forehead slap for me was the realization that if the grid does not disappear almost instantly (a couple of figure 8's?) that the grid removal may be more from the slurry - that could be filling a void/pocket.

If I'm correct (and please chime in, don't be shy) if the grid does not disappear quickly I should re-lap until it does.

I'm going to go pour "something brown" in to a tumbler and think about this...

Yes, exactly.

When I lap a new stone I grid it several times 4-5 spinning the stone 180 degrees, with each grid layout and lap from corner to corner and end to end.

If you lap a stone where you are raising a lot of slurry, that slurry alone will remove the pencil grid, especially if the grid is applied lightly.
I noticed this when lapping natural stones with loose grit. So I started marking hard natural stones with a sharpie, with is not as easy to wash off.

Once the stone is flat, you can quickly remove a new pencil grid, so it is not like you are endlessly lapping the stone. I also lap with progressively higher diamond plates, just draw a quick grid to make sure the stone is flat.

If the stone is flat, one lap up and down will remove the grid, completely. If you see low spots, that part of the stone has never touched the plate and will be much rougher than the lapped part.

Re lapped the hones. Now one lap around the wet / dry and all the pencil marks are gone.
I honed two Robeson razors and one is amazing. Treetops and one doesn't. I got a close smooth shave the one razor tonight.
I sure it's just a new stone I need to get used to.
I'm going to meet up with Ken Rupkalvis, my SATx mentore, latter this week. What a great guy. An ex high school teacher and makes some great strops.
Thank you guys for the wonderful help and fabulous shave tonight.
You guys are the best

If it shaves well I don't care if it tree tops my arm hair , maybe worrying about the stuff that you can't change , I get the same results too and my blades are honed by a pretty good fellow. I don't know why but the ones that don't tree top my arm hair really give me a smooth shave. Tc

I am SUPER new to honing, but I have found the same thing when moving from my 8k Norton to 12k Naniwa completing the polishing phases of honing. Thinking I was doing something wrong, I changed what hair I do my tests on from my arm hair (very fine) to my beard (more course). To me it seems that the arm hair just doesn't stick to any well polished edge, whether I honed it or not. On the beard, however, the 12k grabs and tops just fine. I now just accept that if it looks good under the loupe, and it it topping my beard, it is ready for a shave test. Thus far, on the 5 different blades I have successfully taken to this point, that I get extremely smooth and close shaves.

The steel made a difference in my experience as well....my 3 TI C135 blades when well polished always seem "less sharp" than the 2 Sheffield's I have completed...no matter what I can't get a TI to top trees on arm hair, but man they give a great shave on the shave test....so with that I left them alone and use them almost daily! The Sheffields will top hair after the 12k..but just barely. Just my observations. I have a LONG way to go before I can really speak with any reasonable authority.

Originally Posted by Denvernoob

I have a LONG way to go before I can really speak with any reasonable authority.

Im right there with you. About 6 months I've been refreshing my blades. About 3-4 months I've been buying ebay razors and feel competent at bevel setting only after Kens Rupkalvis' help (very patient man).
The shapton is a new stone and the pros here were correct, just because the grid marks get removed doesn't mean the stone is flat. They have to come off with a single swipe.
Yes the steel makes some differences. The hht is just a guide.
The shave test and edge longevity is the ticket. We both are still learning

N

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yes, exactly.

When I lap a new stone I grid it several times 4-5 spinning the stone 180 degrees, with each grid layout and lap from corner to corner and end to end.

If you lap a stone where you are raising a lot of slurry, that slurry alone will remove the pencil grid, especially if the grid is applied lightly.
I noticed this when lapping natural stones with loose grit. So I started marking hard natural stones with a sharpie, with is not as easy to wash off.

Once the stone is flat, you can quickly remove a new pencil grid, so it is not like you are endlessly lapping the stone. I also lap with progressively higher diamond plates, just draw a quick grid to make sure the stone is flat.

If the stone is flat, one lap up and down will remove the grid, completely. If you see low spots, that part of the stone has never touched the plate and will be much rougher than the lapped part.

Awesome! I didn't realize that and was just lapping until all the marks were gone. Didn't realize about the slurry. Thanks!