Thread: Vintage Lile Surgical Black Ark... before or after Shapton Glass 16k

My dad left me a pretty cool Lile, Hard Surgical Black hone that until recently, I wasn't using. For those aren't familiar with Lile, he is the artisan who designed and produced the Rambo knife..

Not looking for a definitive answer as I know the Ark isn't strictly rated being a natural.. However, in general, should a Surgical Black Arkie fit in progression as a finisher above the 16k or would that be a step backward.

I am planning a few tests of my own. I usually go Shapton Glass 1,2,4,8k finish on the 16k with less than 10 strokes, then a 3/2/1 backhone series ala gssixgun on the 30k, and the edge still has a tendency to be fragile and somewhat forensic feeling. I took a few edges to the Black Ark (water & a dot of soap) after the 16k and it really mellowed out the edge. Curious if there is anyone who uses this combo, if only to corroborated what I am feeling...

I don't know about going ark before or after a 16K. I have used one after a 12K, and after a hard ark. Some of my blades love the edge.

Make sure it's flat!

Dave W and Wid have written quite a bit about the Arks. I have a black hard, and a translucent that I've used following an 8k and put a real nice shaving edge on a number of razors.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ighlight=black

An Ark edge is a different edge, crisp and keen. I would go to an Ark after a 12K, never have done so after a 16K, though I doubt it would hurt. More important than grit size progression, is how the stone is prepared, for razor honing.

Once lapped flat, using a loose Silicon Oxide progression, (an Ark will eat a diamond plate), the stone face should be burnished with a large chisel or Carbon steel knife with lots of pressure and several hundred laps, with oil or water and soap or Smith’s honing solution. Once you have a glass like finish on the stone, it is ready for a razor, 3-400 laps. The more, the more better, once burnished, you will not have to do so again, unless you lap it. If you do not burnish the Ark stone face, the edge will be a lot less keen, yet more aggressive.

Arks do cut slowly, 100 plus laps on a razor are not uncommon. An Ark edge is a very nice edge and some razors shave better that others with the Ark. I like it for old hard steel, Sheffield, and Swedish steel. It is a nice edge for a micro bevel, with an extra layer of tape and 15-20 laps on a shave ready edge.

As said there is a lot posted on Arks for finishing razors.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Dave W and Wid have written quite a bit about the Arks. I have a black hard, and a translucent that I've used following an 8k and put a real nice shaving edge on a number of razors.

Thank you sir!!

Originally Posted by Euclid440

An Ark edge is a different edge, crisp and keen. I would go to an Ark after a 12K, never have done so after a 16K, though I doubt it would hurt. More important than grit size progression, is how the stone is prepared, for razor honing.

Once lapped flat, using a loose Silicon Oxide progression, (an Ark will eat a diamond plate), the stone face should be burnished with a large chisel or Carbon steel knife with lots of pressure and several hundred laps, with oil or water and soap or Smith’s honing solution. Once you have a glass like finish on the stone, it is ready for a razor, 3-400 laps. The more, the more better, once burnished, you will not have to do so again, unless you lap it. If you do not burnish the Ark stone face, the edge will be a lot less keen, yet more aggressive.

Arks do cut slowly, 100 plus laps on a razor are not uncommon. An Ark edge is a very nice edge and some razors shave better that others with the Ark. I like it for old hard steel, Sheffield, and Swedish steel. It is a nice edge for a micro bevel, with an extra layer of tape and 15-20 laps on a shave ready edge.

As said there is a lot posted on Arks for finishing razors.

So I've used a steel edge confirmed to be straight and I see no issues with flatness on the Ark. I have a DMT 325 but I know it will be a paperweight after trying to lap the Ark, so I haven't done so.

It's been burnished with a chisel face and when wet, it's as reflective as glass. The ends aren't as burnished as the mid-field but these areas are out-of-play on any of my strokes.

I don't have a 10k or 12k. The 10k SG is a pretty expensive stone and I don't see it in my kit any time soon It would have to be 8k to the Ark, which I feel is a big jump on the SG's. 16k to the Ark seems to be okay.

I think I average around 50 strokes before I begin to get finish-feedback from the stone.

If the stone is not flat or smooth, as you hone you will reveal fresh stone face, that has not been lapped and is nowhere near as smooth as the parts that have been lapped flat and burnished smooth.

That can ruin your edge and cause you no-end of frustration. If you are getting good edges, don’t sweat it, but if you start having issues, look at that and lap and burnish the whole stone.

You should be able to go from an 8 or 16k edge to the Ark the 8k will just take more laps, 100 plus is normal.

Agree with what was said above. I wouldn't use it before or after a shapton 16K, but instead of. When they are burnished and flat, they will put a bright polish on an edge and make it very crispy feeling, but not like it will make weepers like an oxide powder edge can.

Statement above that stone prep is most of the battle, definitely, and that hard razors will finish finer. Definitely also true, same for any natural stone that uses novaculite sedimentary silica, the hardened steel is about the same hardness as the abrasive, and the harder steel will polish better because of it, it's an even battle between razor and stone.

Same reason that japanese stones will cut hard japanese tools to a finer edge than a lot of western tools. There's a sweet spot where things work together well.

At the same time, you can take a stone that is conditioned and cuts a hard razor to a bright polish, and then sharpen a pocket knife on it and be puzzled about why the knife edge isn't that great - it's because knives are usually a few ticks softer and ark stones cut them very well as opposed to razors where they sort of cut and sort of polish.

So, anyway, instead of 16k.

If the razor is taking too long, you can use a little bit of moderate pressure for a while and then finish with light strokes.

Originally Posted by DaveW

Agree with what was said above. I wouldn't use it before or after a shapton 16K, but instead of. When they are burnished and flat, they will put a bright polish on an edge and make it very crispy feeling, but not like it will make weepers like an oxide powder edge can.

Statement above that stone prep is most of the battle, definitely, and that hard razors will finish finer. Definitely also true, same for any natural stone that uses novaculite sedimentary silica, the hardened steel is about the same hardness as the abrasive, and the harder steel will polish better because of it, it's an even battle between razor and stone.

Same reason that japanese stones will cut hard japanese tools to a finer edge than a lot of western tools. There's a sweet spot where things work together well.

At the same time, you can take a stone that is conditioned and cuts a hard razor to a bright polish, and then sharpen a pocket knife on it and be puzzled about why the knife edge isn't that great - it's because knives are usually a few ticks softer and ark stones cut them very well as opposed to razors where they sort of cut and sort of polish.

So, anyway, instead of 16k.

If the razor is taking too long, you can use a little bit of moderate pressure for a while and then finish with light strokes.

Nailed it!