Thread: The Ever Elusive False Edge - What Helped Me

Hey,

I'm still very new to honing, and one of my banes was that every time I honed, especially at bevel set, I always seemed to produce a very fine false/wire/foiled edge off my shapton synthetics that just fell apart 1-3 shaves in. I thought I would share some progress and what has helped me in hope that it can help someone who might be dealing with the same thing.

At first I was examining the edge under magnification (both head on and from the side) under a bright light. What I was seeing was a very fine line all across the edge, even though it would easily pop hair. Based off of everyone's advice, I was thinking that I just was not getting to the apex, I just kept on lightly honing in hope that the stria would reach the apex, under the assumption that I was under honing. When I realized this was not working and all I was hitting was the shoulder of the bevel I was assuming that pressure was the issue, and in part that was true, but after lightening up on my pressure it still was not fixing the problem.

After meeting with a honing mentor here on SRP twice in the past 1.5 months and conversing over email, I realized what I was doing was honing to the point where the edge would fold out of the way of the stone and would always produce this fine shiny line on the apex. My bevel was well beyond the point of being set; popping hairs but not having the strength to withstand more than 2 shaves. Of course I had him look over my stropping just to rule that out, and he confirmed it was ok. At this point we concluded I was experiencing a false/wire/foiled edge that was so bad that it would break off during the shave or stropping and would need the bevel reset.

So what helped me? My mentor introduced me to Jnat slurry honing. He sent me home with a stone and naguras to try out and play around with after the honing session. For some reason, even if after I come off of my bevel setter with that light reflecting line (popping hairs of course), after starting the slurry progression my bevel would be set; popping hairs really well, and my stria would be all the way to the apex and the reflecting line on the bevel disappeared. And as I would progress up in the slurry progression the reflecting line would still be nowhere to be found and I am starting to get really good results off the hones.

Now granted this tells me that I have to work on my bevel setting on the bevel setter as to not ever get the false edge/fin. But the slurry honing helped accommodate for my lack of experience and skill at bevel setting.

Now there is probably some details that I probably left off of here because of space and how long all this took to learn, but I am hoping that this might help someone who may be having bevel setting issues.

So, your edge does not really get straight until 6-8k, under magnification you will easily see that.

One of the things you might try, is once you have set the bevel at 1k, lightly joint the edge, dragging it on the corner of the stone once or twice. What you are doing is grinding a flat edge then re-joining the bevels at a higher grit. The ragged edge needs to be ground off anyway to get a straight edge.

Re set the bevel on 4k and polish, on the 8k, where the edge will really start to become very straight without the ragged 1k edge.

When we set a bevel we flatten the bevels, set the angle with the edge/spine and get the bevels to meet at the edge. Once the bevels are flat and in line with the spine, it is easy to get the bevels back together with very little pressure and straight edge.

Those shaptons cut really quick and you have to pay attention to pressure when you are getting close to the end of bevel set. Jointing the edge is always a good idea IMHO and I joint after every stone except the last one. I let CrOx and stropping take care of that last bit of wire that may be left.

I have been experimenting stropping on a Chrome Oxide on a poly canvas hanging strop between the 8 and 12k, just 10 or so, lite laps with very good results.

Even plain leather works well just before you final finish stone.

Euclid,

You have mentioned this jointing the edge to me before. I'm still working on the technique. Still having trouble with it and I will get there. For some reason I never thought of doing it the way you said in post 2, jointing after the 1k and bringing it together on the 4k, or even after each stone like Cris said. But bringing that up, brings a question to my mind. It's just an observational question and has nothing to go against what you all have said. From what I have experienced and what you all are saying, the slurry honing I have been playing with on jnats accomplished the same task in an all in one step. Am I correct in this? From what it seems to me the slurry is slightly removing the "dead" material off the edge and then jointing them again and again as I progress up.

Like I said this is an observational question looking for knowledge rather than contradicting what you are saying, because I am wanting to learn all the aspects that I can and be able to have fun with my synthetics along with any naturals if I so choose.

What about trying some forward and backward strokes on the hone? The stropping-like backward strokes should help out a bit if you are creating wire edges.

Anyway, good luck to you - honing is a journey and everyone follows a winding path to reach their destination.

(Wow, that was a bit zen...)

James.

As with most things in this hobby there are many paths to the destination. Jointing, once the bevels are flat and angle set, cuts a straight edge, then hone to that edge rather than create one, is just another way to get there.

Your issue is probably due to too much pressure and the razor is flexing on the bevel, lifting the edge off the stone, so the uneven edge does not abrade evenly. The slurry adds another layer of abrasive, enough to remove the edge and cut a new one.

Slurry though can be a double edge sword, and without thinning or breaking down can affect the edge’s keenness.

We discussed much of this in a past thread here, “Hone a straight edge or to a straight edge?”

Pyramid and like Jimbo said reverse (like stropping) honing works for me. I creap up on the edge on 1/4K and then when it is there polish 8 and above.

It sounds like you got with a mentor and found a way that not only works but works well. Congrats and thanks for posting for others in the future that will take time to learn and research.