Thread: bevel appearence under a microscope

Hey all,

Okay, So this is probably a noob question for the records, but what should a bevel look like under a microscope? Should it be completely free of scratches under 100x mag?
I'm looking for that 'fresh from the honemeisters' smooth shave, and I figure best to know what I'm looking for now.
Also, say I already did 15 laps on the 0.5 micron and it's still not smooth, should I micron it until it gets smooth?

I would say the best way to see what you want would be to have a honemeister hone a razor for you then look at it under 100X magnification. What I have found is that the low-powered Radio Shack microscopes are very useful for finding a problem in a bevel such as a micro-chip; however, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to tell if a razor will shave very well just by looking at it under 100X magnification. With this said I have looked at both a Lynn honed razor, a Randy Tuttle honed razor, and my best shaving razors under 100X. They are not completely free of scratches; however, the scratch pattern is light and uniform. The bevel is also 1 uniform black color that looks sort of like black glass with a slight grain to it. I have heard that the edge should be so thin that it will not reflect light, hence the black color. If I were you I would not attempt to get rid of all the scratches with your pasted strop, I would just shave with the razor and see if it shaves comfortably. If it does then you are done, if not then go back to the pasted strop for a few more passes. As long as you see a uniform and even bevel without any chips then you have done what you can with the microscope IMO. Hopefully this helps a little.

Originally Posted by custommartini

Hey all,

Okay, So this is probably a noob question for the records, but what should a bevel look like under a microscope? Should it be completely free of scratches under 100x mag?
I'm looking for that 'fresh from the honemeisters' smooth shave, and I figure best to know what I'm looking for now.
Also, say I already did 15 laps on the 0.5 micron and it's still not smooth, should I micron it until it gets smooth?

For the record, many members find that razors aren't smoothest right after the honing session - and may take 2-3 shaves to improve smoothness

At the right magnification, the razor will have not only scratches but "teeth" - so it's relative. 100 should give you scratches.

Here's a photo I got from the archives some time ago - not sure who deserves the credit, sorry

Cheers
Ivo

I got pretty hung up on the scratches when I first started out, only to find later that they're not so important.

It's hard to judge what's going on at the edge just by looking at the scratches. For example, my Gem barber hone leaves scratches that are visible to the unaided eye, while the Norton 8K leaves a mirror polish. But if I follow the Gem with 20 strokes on my Barber's Choice hone, I can get a very comfortable shaving edge that still shows scratches. Despite its polished appearance, the 8K edge doesn't shave comfortably for me no matter what I do.

A pasted strop will reduce the scratches somewhat, but if you try to smooth them out completely you will definitely overhone.

The microscope is more useful for diagnosing problems and getting an idea of the condition of the edge as a whole. Is there a wire edge (bright line at the end of the bevel)? Does the bevel run all the way to the edge (solid color)? Are there chips or irregularities in the edge?

Don't get me wrong--it's a great tool. It does take a little learning to get the hang of, though.

Good luck,
Josh

I think that photo is one of a series by the mysterious David Uthe, from a few years back, on the Yahoo! razor group. Note that it's 60X, though... He also had a couple of photos of a wire edge, plus some of a brand new, mass-produced safety razor blade.

Originally Posted by grunion

I think that photo is one of a series by the mysterious David Uthe, from a few years back, on the Yahoo! razor group. Note that it's 60X, though... He also had a couple of photos of a wire edge, plus some of a brand new, mass-produced safety razor blade.

Yup, I guess that's it - I have the wire edge too. I hear he was one of the first honemeisters

Cheers
Ivo

ps cool avatar

Originally Posted by custommartini

Also, say I already did 15 laps on the 0.5 micron and it's still not smooth, should I micron it until it gets smooth?

That should be enough to get it smooth (or about smooth as chrome oxide will get it). Are you sure you aren't confusing sharp and smooth?

The photos in the library do a good job of showing you what a good bevel looks like. Unfortunately, that tells you bupkus about how sharp the razor is. But if your bevel has chips and chunks missing under magnification then it probably needs some more work. If it looks like the ones in the library then it just needs to be gotten to sharp.

I never get that black ice look, btw, and I suspect that this sort of effect has a lot to do with where the light source is at ("black" simply means the bevel is reflecting the light somewhere other than the lens). My bevels are a matte grey color with fine parallel scratches. After a bit of stropping the scratches are mostly buffed away, but the bevel never gets black under the scope no matter how polished it is.

Under magnification the edge should no chips or nicks, appear of a uniform smoothness and even, the width of the bevel and the uniformity of the bevel width is not important. The color and finish of the bevel should be uniform for both the length and width of the blade. If two colors appear then you have two different bevel angles and if you have two different finishes on the bevel then it is uneven honing. There should be no "sparklies" along the edge. This indicates either a wire edge or a precursor to a wire edge. This can also show up as a rust/copper/brown spot or line segment on the edge. The actual color will depend on the light source and angle.

These are the cues that I use, YMMV