Thread: Overhoning

So (pardon the newbie-ness) what is the thinking there? That larger grit particles "reach up" and destroy the wire edge as it's forming?

- Scott

I agree with Randy. The "brute force" strategy of hundreds of laps in a progressive process is one strategy. As you've noted though, it can make things worse! When learning to hone any particular razor, there is no substitute for watching what is occurring after 20 strokes or so under magnification. That includes both sides of the blade and from heel to toe. Observation informs process. Keep at it! You'll get this and soon be happily shaving.

OK, I will adopt this thread!

It sounds like you have a blade that does not have a straight edge but rather a "smile". It also seems that you are working on a vintage razor. It sounds like your pressure while honing is more on the heel portion of the blade and not evenly distributed.

The solution is to make sure of an even application of pressure along the entire length of the edge while keeping the razor flat on the hone. In addition use an "X" pattern stroke as shown in my avatar but at a more extreme angle. The tip of the blade should also be angled back about 20 degrees.
Use the magic marker trick suggested by Mparker.

Keep us informed of your progress!

Im sure this is not the answer you want to hear...SEND THE RAZOR TO LYNN OR ANOTHER MEMBER OF THE FORUM with experience to fix it and put you on a level playing field...Its one thing to hone or touch up a razor with a good edge...its another to try to remove chips ect if you are a novice...this is about enjoying shaving not frustration and agony...the best way to learn is by getting face to face time with a honemeister it shortens the learning curve dramatically...send the razor to lynn and when you get it back stay away from the honing stones if possible...come to the convention in oct in chicago and we will enlighten you as to the many aspects of str8 shaving ...a recent new member of this forum sent me a razor with a chunk out of the blade...it took me about fifteen minutes to fix and put a great edge on it...it would of taken an inexperienced honer hours of work it he could of fixed the str8 at all...its all about tech and little tricks to speed up the process...one has to be careful I dont know what 1-2 pounds of pressure feels like...different steels carbon stainless or dam all react differently... the grind can sometimes affect the angle ...some razors need to have the spline taped before honing...too much pressure and too agressive of honing can cause a structural crack ...repairing and honing blades will be one of many topics that will be showcased at the convention in chicago in mid oct...

Originally Posted by clarman

Im sure this is not the answer you want to hear...SEND THE RAZOR TO LYNN OR ANOTHER MEMBER OF THE FORUM with experience to fix it and put you on a level playing field...

the best way to learn is by getting face to face time with a honemeister it shortens the learning curve dramatically...send the razor to lynn and when you get it back stay away from the honing stones if possible...

...a recent new member of this forum sent me a razor with a chunk out of the blade...it took me about fifteen minutes to fix and put a great edge on it...it would of taken an inexperienced honer hours of work it he could of fixed the str8 at all...

I don't agree. Different things for different people. I am a firm believer in the way of learning where you figure out everything for yourself.
I prefer learning by solving problems, and only asking questions if I am stuck or don't know how to start.

My first edge restoration took me 19 hours. I made several mistakes during the process, but I also learned a lot of things in making and correcting them.
Touching up a razor is easy enough to learn by seeing it done, but major work is something I'd like to figure out for yourself by trial and error.

I am sure that other people find other approaches better suitable for them, but the learning value of choosing the 'hard way' works for me.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't agree. Different things for different people. I am a firm believer in the way of learning where you figure out everything for yourself.
I prefer learning by solving problems, and only asking questions if I am stuck or don't know how to start.
[...]
I am sure that other people find other approaches better suitable for them, but the learning value of choosing the 'hard way' works for me.

I have a very similar philosophy in life. Most of the time I wish I was less stubborn and learned to ask more readily. I'm glad I did with wet shaving. Getting a razor honed by Lynn certainly isn't abandoning the self-/experienced-based method of learning. Quite the opposite. I found it complemented my learning.

If you get a straight honed by Lynn and not touch it save for stropping, then you truly have a gold standard. I then went to my hones with my other blades and just kept learning, every now and then referring to the gold standard next to me.

I find unless you have a target to aim for, how do you know you're reaching it if you only ever rely on your own resources? It's like any kind of learning... we send our kids to school so they can learn without having to work everything out themselves from first principles, right?

God knows my wife would never have become a doctor in 5 years if she opted to learn herself the hard way. In fact, I'm not sure I'd let a doctor or surgeon near me if they were self-taught! "Meh, I've heard all about triple bypass surgery but I find a piece of rubber tubing and elmo glue work swell!"

I guess I'm saying that the sastisfaction of solving a problem yourself is enormous and worthwhile, but sometimes taking instruction can shorten the learning curve and improve the end result. Just my tuppence worth (here in the UK we're a little more traditional than $0.02! ).

I don't knock learning by the trial and error method...if one wants to beat one's head against the wall be my guest...I can only speak from my experience...years ago I spent hours and hours trying to learn the art of honeing and shaving on my own...I was frust and unhappy...I ruined a few razors not only by poor technique but Im sure a few got thrown against the wall in anger...then I thought Id finally figured it out...I was quite proud of myself...after spending many hours getting what I thought was the perfect edge on the razor, I went to London on business and took the razor into trumpers to see my buddy alex the senior barber (he probably dead by now)...
after he shaved me with his razor I proudly showed him my razor that hed sold me six months before...Look at my edge I exclaimed to him...tell me what you think...be honest Well we knew each other well enough to be blunt...he laughed said the edge was subpair I think he said crap! and asked me If I was ready to learn...when I asked him why I couldnt figure it out on my own he said I could but the razor would never be as sharp as it could be...He said learning basic and the finer tech of str8 shaving was easier learned from an experienced honemeister...the novice or semi novice shaver really has no idea of what a sharp edge really is, how to get it and how to maintain it...I was guilty of this for years I was a legend in my own mind (I probably still am) seriously I was unaware of what a really sharp edge really was...what I once thought was a great comfortable smooth close shaver for years, today I wouldnt pickup except to put in the rehone bin...one of the reasons we have this forum and especially the newbie section is to spread our knowledge help each other and speed up all of our learning curves so we dont have to spend 19 hours on a razor ...the convention the weekend of oct 20 will be a great time and well worth the effort travel to chicago...

Dear moderator,

What's this I hear about a convention? Is is going to happen? Will there be official notice posted? If so, where?

In the dark and bulbless, Bruce

thats correct...we will be posting info on the convention very soon.. the event will take place in chicago over the weekend of oct 20 2007...both lynn and I are very excited about this event...many of our vendors will attend ...many topics will be covered including but not limited to face prep, honing, shaving, restoration, collecting and basically answering any questions anyone has...as well as face time available with the more experienced honemeisters it promised to be a great event lots of comradery...we are inviting the other shaving forums .....stay tuned lynn will be making a more formal announcement soon...pls be patient this takes a lot of work to get it right and we are working diligentlly as quickly as we can...if this is supported, we plan to make this an annual event...charlie (clarman)

I do have a Lynn honed razor. I only used it 2 or 3 times because I want to keep it as a standard, rather than for regular shaving.

I did have a lot of troubles getting my money to Lynn, so by the time I got that razor, I already had a lot of experience on different types of razor.
I had just honed a razor for someone that was as sharp and nearly as smooth as the one I got from Lynn.

Suffice it to say that that really made my day. The shave itself was not half as good as the feeling that my edges were comparable to those from 'teh honemeister' himself.