Thread: Honing hard steel razors and russian razors

I think the hardest razor I have ever honed (hard steel that is) was the TI Damascus. It literally laughed at the hone no matter which one I had used. I spent months on and off to get that thing shave ready. In the end my diamond pasted bench strop put the final shaving edge on it.

I have nightmares about that razor.

I assume the cause is micro-chipping on hard steel.

I have found, as Geezer said, getting to a straight edge early on helps with hard steel. I too, try to get the 1k edge, as chip free and straight as possible, jointing and re-setting the edge, a couple times if needed, to get as straight an edge as possible. Once the bevels are flat and straight, it does not take much to re-set a 1k edge, even with 4k.

For me the 1-4k edge makes a big difference on the back end, with hard steel razors. Finishing on hard Arks or lapping film gives great results as does the 12k and paste, haven’t tried my PHIG.

Also, a lot depends on the stones used early on, low grit or aggressive stones, like diamond plates with pressure, will cause micro-chipping. Some steel will have to be removed to get to good steel, that will not chip. When using low grits or diamonds for repairs, do not bring the bevels to meet, get the bevels are flat and close to meeting and bring to meet on a 1k.

Consider that many russian razor were created for only to shaving so some maker not did quality tratments (there were strict conditions in Russia) hower i had 3 russian razor 1 is good quality razor(hard steel like sweedish razor, that have same steel,) 2 vary poor steel

Hard razors need an homogenous grain to not be chippy. A hard razor that is forged & heat treated correctly will always give glorious shaves eg Iwasaki westerns @ 65-66 HRC.
On the other hand, a razor that has missed the tempering bath & is just brittle may chip at any time, even at 8k.

The only Russian razor I honed was a stainless one & it shared the usual idiosyncrasies of that steel. Not that hard but tough & resistant to the stones. Tho it shaved quite well the edge was not pretty.

As has been said bevel set is VIP.

Just my thoughts if these steels are prone to microchipping,
Could using something like the micro bevel technique that has been mentioned that Tim Zowada (RC 62-65) amongst others have used sometimes, be beneficial to help the edge be a bit smoother??

My O1 razors (of a whopping 3 I have made) were hard as hell. Major pain to set the initial bevel, and then a pain thereafter. That's why I bought the Chosera 1k. But to be honest, I also used peel and stick diamond film on a marble tile. the 15 micron cuts pretty well, but you'd better be close already, as it's not going to remove a pile of steel, especially with wide bevels. Also, my lime green Nakayama cuts like crazy, but at a fine grit. My initial edges chipped and failed a lot, but looking back, I wonder if the edges might have been decarburized a bit. Once they were properly set and honed, the O1 left a nice, long-lived edge. I'm not really familiar with any other steels at this point (other than some 'real' razors - my Sheffield, some Solingens, etc).

One thing that really got me was some oxidization on the spine side of a razor at the tip. It took forever to get my honing to cut through it and level out a bevel. It was like filing through welded steel and coming across a piece of slag that's harder, except this was just black surface pitting. Long story short, the hard synthetic hones and fast Japanese stones worked for me, as did PSA diamond film.

I've never held a Russian razor, but if they are as hard as that, I bet if you get a nice edge, it will stay for a while.

Your comment about de-carb at the edge brings back memories of my most hated by professional honers razor. It was too hard and finally got to a point that it honed well. But a lot of hours on the hones before that. It was a re-tempered Herder blank from Germany. De-carb may have been the problem there.

Funny how experiences with certain razor brands differ. Must be a matter of technique not quite adequate for the razor. I never have problems getting great edges on Swedes, I have one Russian razor: no problems either. My nightmare razor is a TI that I cannot get as sharp as I like on a 1/2" length part of the edge near the toe. Best results I get with that one is on a Rouge de Salm followed by genuine linen and leather using about 3 lbs worth of pressure and pulling the strops very taut.

I can't see there being much of a problem as I hone many TI razors and they are about as hard a steel as you are likely to come across maybe a little more pressure needed in your passes and a few more strokes but quite doable all the same.