Thread: I can't get consistent with setting the bevel

Possibly a really dumb question, but have you checked them for frowns? 50% of the razors I find in the wild have them and make honing nearly impossible until they are removed.

Pressure is hard to judge until you hone for awhile, you can use a fair amount during the bevel setting part of honing unless it's an extra-hollow grind. By the time you get to the finisher it should be weight of the blade only or possibly less on an extra-hollow due to flexing.

Originally Posted by rodb

Possibly a really dumb question, but have you checked them for frowns? 50% of the razors I find in the wild have them and make honing nearly impossible until they are removed.

Pressure is hard to judge until you hone for awhile, you can use a fair amount during the bevel setting part of honing unless it's an extra-hollow grind. By the time you get to the finisher it should be weight of the blade only or possibly less on an extra-hollow due to flexing.

Yes - I checked by putting the blade essentially vertically (ie like a breadknifing position) on the hone and checking to see if light shines through from the other side.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

A perfectly aligned smiling edge will not lie flat on a flat surface.

I have a W&B with a smile. It sits perfectly flat on the hone. And it has a small uniform bevel. The spine is hollow and possibly that makes a difference?

Originally Posted by WW243

I have a W&B with a smile. It sits perfectly flat on the hone. And it has a small uniform bevel. The spine is hollow and possibly that makes a difference?

I'd love to see a picture of that blade - I'm not doubting, I'd just love to see how it looks like.

Same here, I've honed probably 50 razors with big smiles and none of them sat flat on the hone. The tip and heel were off and I used a rolling x-stroke to get the whole blade

Originally Posted by WhoAmI

I'd love to see a picture of that blade - I'm not doubting, I'd just love to see how it looks like.

Originally Posted by WhoAmI

I'm avoiding that particular bag of worms for now.

It's not really a bag of worms. It is simple geometry. If the spine is of uniform thickness/width, a razor with a smile will not sit flat on a flat hone. The geometry does not allow it. That's not a problem, though, as all curved blades need a rolling-x hone technique for best results and it is a very effective and efficient technique.

Originally Posted by PapaBull

It's not really a bag of worms. It is simple geometry. If the spine is of uniform thickness/width, a razor with a smile will not sit flat on a flat hone. The geometry does not allow it. That's not a problem, though, as all curved blades need a rolling-x hone technique for best results and it is a very effective and efficient technique.

Sure, but the way I see it: I can't consistently hone a plain ol' hollow razor consistently. If I throw on a completely different class of problems (rolling Xs, wedges, thinking about giant smiles, etc), I'll completely overwhelm myself.

Originally Posted by WhoAmI

Sure, but the way I see it: I can't consistently hone a plain ol' hollow razor consistently. If I throw on a completely different class of problems (rolling Xs, wedges, thinking about giant smiles, etc), I'll completely overwhelm myself.

I consider the rolling x pattern to be standard honing. It wasn't until I got to see a honing seminar with a bunch of folks gingerly trying to pass a razor across a razor setting on a bench that I realized why some people would find it challenging. It is, in my opinion, a two- hand job because it's way easiest with hone in one hand and razor in the other. For people that are honing-challenged, a straight blade fitting perfectly flat on a hone is a good idea for ease of maintenance. For those a bit handier with hones, it isn't a problem either way.

Originally Posted by PapaBull

It's not really a bag of worms. It is simple geometry. If the spine is of uniform thickness/width, a razor with a smile will not sit flat on a flat hone.

Actually the smile will not lie flat on both sides regardless of the spine shape. Two planes intersect as a straight line, as was known prior to Euclid ca 300BC. I say both sides because a warped smile may lie flat on the show side for example, but then it would be even farther from flat when flipped over.

The only way a curved edge can lie flat would be to have a spine thickness of zero in which case the two planes are parallel and do not intersect.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

Actually the smile will not lie flat on both sides regardless of the spine shape.

Good point. I was only envisioning one side when I posted that.