Thread: I want to like my straight razor

First, I can say for sure that this place is not like a lot of internet communities where poeple will only talk to you if you're one of the cool crowd. Thanks for all the thought-out input!!!

To answer a few of the questions:

No, this razor was not professionally honed, and I did start using it out of the box.

I did lap the 4k side of my norton with their flattening stone to remove a few broken spots around the edges.

I tried to not use any pressure when honeing, but I found that I had to use some to keep it flat. Also, it seemed like the water formed a suction between the blade and the stone that made it difficult to sense how much pressure I was using.

I prepare my beard with blenty of warm watter, a Vulfix Badger brush, and Truefitt & Hill shave cream out of a tub. This is the same way that I prepared for my DE shave.

I have trouble guessing the angle at which I hold the razor to my face, but I try to hold the spine of the blade roughly the width of itself (the spine) above my face. I'm guessing that is around 15 degrees? Does that description even make sence? :-)

As for the suggestions:

So do you guys think I should get a paddle strop with paste? I use a hanging strop now because I like the nostalgia, but I am very careful to keep it pulled tight, keep the blade flat, and use as little pressure as possible.

I don't have a lot of money to spend, so I was trying to avoid ordering a razor for practicing honing. The same thing goes for ordering an escher, coticule, or a professionally honed razor. Would you say these are not optional? ...I also have not ordered Lynn's DVD for this reason.

I feel better about all of this than when I made my first post, but I am still lost as to what it is that I am missing. Why does something that seems so sharp shave so baddly?

I'd say that your cheapest option would be to send the blade to Lynn (or another expert) for sharpening, then maintain that with an unpasted hanging strop. Getting a benchmark edge is really going to be the fastest way for you to develop.

You only really need one out of a coticule/pasted strop, and that for touch ups to the edge (still thinking about economy). A practice razor should cost you very little - a cheap ebay one or a Wapenica (also from ebay) should run you around $10-$15. That plus Lynn's DVD is going to be cheaper than a new strop or coticule.

I personally would shave at about the same angle as you are; I might try to keep the blade closer to my face, if the edge is really sharp, and try to reduce the pressure; you might find that you need less pressure than you are used to, although other DE skills like beard prep obviously transfer over very well.

You need to lap both sides of that norton. Soak it for ~ 30 minutes,then draw a grid on both sides with a pencil, and lap each side until the pencil marks are gone.

You should definitely *not* use any pressure during the final stages of honing. I use the water suction to my advantage - I put a little lift on the edge as I stroke and let the suction pull the blade back down on the hone.

Well, thanks for all the suggestions guys. I think that I'll try to scrape together some money and try to order Lynn's DVD, and a practice razor. Maybe over the next few months I think I'll try to pick up a Coticle and a razor honed by Lynn so I'll have a reference as to what "sharp" really is.

In the mean time I think I'll lap both sides of my Norton, and with patience this time, give honing another try.

First, the usual caveat: I'm no expert. Now, with that out of the way, here's my 2 cents.

As I understand it, you have a stainless steel straight razor, and it is my understanding that they can be a bit more difficult to hone than a carbon steel one.

I have two carbon steel straights myself, one I received shave ready and one I bought "factory sharp" and then made shave ready by stropping on pasted paddle strops I made myself (I'm also in the position that I lack money at the moment). The latter razor pulled and tugged on my beard like crazy out of the box, and it took some work to get it shave ready. Now it slices through the stubble like a hot knife through butter, but I still think it could probably get a little bit sharper still.

i to am very frustrated with my razor i have a dovo stainless 5/8 and i did alot of reading befor i bought mine and as soon as i got it i sent it to lynn to be honed because everything i came across said not to shave out of the box SOO . . . after being honed it pulls on the hair and i have REDICULOUS amounts of short stubble left over afterwards. the razor catches on hair and digs into my cheek which is not to fun as im sure everyone knows. . . im sure that its something i am doing incorrectly but i just dont know what it is . . . i seem to have more trouble on the left side of my face then the right which is PROBABLy the angle that i hold the razor but on the right side i still have trouble with it pulling the hair and leaving stubble. . . also started using aftershave for the first time and would like to know if its normal for it to burn soo horrible bad. . . i dont really like using the aftershave because it covers up the smell of my shaving cream. . . is there anything anyone can recomend for that?

I am yet another lurking noob, but have been straight shaving since February. Perhaps a short recap of the problems I faced would help. While all the advice here at the forum is dead on, it is still mystifying the first time you experience it.

I have a DOVO 5/8 carbon, thanks to Tony Miller and the best girlfriend ever.

1. I received shave ready straight from Tony. I promptly mis-strop it and mess up the edge. It shaves terribly and feels worse.

2. I practice stropping to get the feel and quit nicking my strop/dinging the edge. (No major damage on that edge. Not visible to naked eye.)

3. I order pre-pasted leather bench hone. 1.0 diamond/.5 chromium. I hone once. Shave is better, not great. Repeat a lot. (I had a damaged edge.) I over hone, or mess up edge through improper stropping. Shaving hurts again.

4. I stop honing with the pasted. Strop a lot. Finally have edge to the point it doesn't rip me up. But the shave could be a lot closer.

5. My cheeks, neck and moustache area can get close shaves. I have finally learned what "don't press the blade on your face" means. My chin and jaw line still do not get close. Lots of stubble left. I have no idea what's wrong.

6. I finally learn what "pull your skin taught" means. I can now get my jaw line and chin beard much better, though I look like a fool while doing so. (HINT: It's tough to go over the jaw line at first. So don't. Pull the jaw line skin up to your flat cheek and shave it.)

7. Today I got my Norton 4000/8000. I didn't lap it. (Seemed flat enough.) Did the pyramid. Followed up with 10 strokes on the pasted chromium. Smoother shave than ever. Much sharper on my tough chin beard. I do two passes on it while tugging my skin like crazy. Bingo! Better than my DE.

Something tells me my honing ain't perfect yet. I think the edge could be sharper for my chin hairs. But I have a closer shave than my DE and it did not irritate.

Lastly, I used a straight for two months before I got the DE. As mentioned elsewhere, my head/arm hairs are so fine I cannot use them for the HHT. Yours may be the same. One of the most liberating moments I had as a new straight shaver was when I decided to stop trying do the HHT.

I have been reluctant to "chime in" and reply to any questions asked in this forum(I'm very new to this), but maybe I can share with you my experience along this line: When I started shaving with a real str8(I started with a Feather) I knew I had to first learn to strop properly. I have several hanging strops, but did not feel my technique was up to standards. I purchased a 3-1/2" paddle strop from Tony. My thinking was that I would prefer to start with the paddle because I didn't have to worry too much about keeping the strop flat and rolling the edge. I had the other side treated with .5 Chromium oxide. I bought a couple of shave ready razors from Bob Keys(Ebay - altima55). What has worked brilliantly for me is that I do about 6 strokes on the treated side and about 30 on the leather side. - I believe what has made this process successful was watching Bill Ellis' CD-Rom on razor restoration. I notice that he places his left index finger on the middle of the blade, on the spine, when he hones. He does say that some of us will cringe when they see this done , but it works for him. I have incorporated this technique with my stroping with the paddle, and it has worked brilliantly for me. No pressure, but it assures me the spine and the edge are absolutely flat. IT WORKS FOR ME! My 2 cents. Good luck...

For anyone that my be interested, this is a follow-up to my original post, the one that began this thread...

I have received and watched Lynn's DVD, and I have found that the phrase, "a picture is worth a thousand words" is very true in this case. Just watching his honing technique, I immediatly realized that I was using entirely too much force while honing. What I perceived as a light touch, in hindsight, was very heavy-handed. In addition, I was using both hands, one on the toe and one on the heal, to guide the razor down the hone. I didn't realize that technique was verboten.

Another misunderstanding that I cleared up was the definition of a "stroke" down a hone or strop. Originally I thought this meant one pass of an edge over the surface. Now after watching the DVD I realize that "one stroke" consists of two passes, one away from, and one toward yourself on the hone or strop. In effect, I was only stropping/honing half as much as I should.

Now after honing properly for one pyramid, and then stroping properly, I got a much better shave... almost as good as the day it was delivered... almost. Which actually isn't a good shave at all, it still pulled like heck and hurt on my upper lip, but for me it is a victory. I have at least improved the edge from "horrible" to just "bad".

Now I have hope! Hope that if I can continue to improve the edge, then just maybe my straight razor will eventually it rival my DE.

I'll chime in here as another n00b who's just now starting to get to that magic "tipping point" when straight shaving goes from losing a fight with a chainsaw, to becoming enjoyable and leaving me fairly smooth. I'm getting a good shave 4 days out of the week now, and trying to figure out where I'm inconsistent on that one day when it's not so good.

I'm sure due to my own stubborn nature, it's taken me far longer than it might have to get to this point: I first started trying with straights back in February, and it's only in the last two weeks that I am starting to get the "wow" going as I wipe off my face with a nice cool washrag.

My own stubborn nature is this: despite getting what is likely very good advice to send out my straights for expert honing, I was determined to do it all by myself. Thus, I was fighting both learning to hone and sharpen at the same time I was learning to shave with the straight. I bought a lot of expensive and fine tools for sharpening, including Lynn's excellent video, Norton stones and pasted paddles, but like you I was having a rough and sometimes bloody effort to get shaved.

I kept assuming the problem was an insufficiently sharp razor, when in reality face prep and shaving technique were the keys. That certainly doesn't mean I've mastered the art of sharpening, but it means that I've been at least "in the zone" on most of my attempts, but just didn't realize it due to poor technique.

Here are the nuggets that I would take away, one fellow newbie to another:

1. Face prep is absolutely essential. I shower, then use a hot washcloth over a pre-shave oil, then work in Proraso with a brush. There are many opinions, but my own experience is that the more you prep the easier the shave is. I'm sure there's a point at which diminishing returns make more face prep wasted time, but as of yet, the 3-4 minutes I spend steaming my face and working in oil and lather just keep giving better and better shaves, the more prep I do.

2. Stretch the skin. As I've seen mentioned, getting the jawline is particularly difficult for newbies, but if I shave my cheeks first, I can then use the fingers on my free hand to pull upwards on my cheeks quite a bit, thus dragging the skin over the jawline up and flat over my cheeks. Under the nose wasn't easy for me, either -- I've learned use the effective but ridiculous looking method of pulling up my nose with my free hand's fingers, first to one side and then the other, in order to allow the straight to lay closer to the skin on my upper lip.

3. For me at least, the only test that matters is shaving. Charlie Larman on this list was kind enough to point out, while delivering much excellent advice, that while many people use the HHT and it is meaningful for them, others can pluck themselves, their wives, and then their dog hairless trying to sharpen and resharpen to pass an HHT, with a razor that would give a perfectly good shave. Ditto for other "tests" that I've tried -- they just don't tell me, as a newbie, if I'm "there" while honing.

For a long time I used the test of shaving a small area on my forearms as a test, but it turns out that's also pretty meaningless. A good kitchen knife will shave my arms.

It's been a long, rough, and as I mentioned a mostly self-inflicted ride to get to where I'm having fun and getting results I like. Keith D'Grau at Hand American has also been very helpful with advice, and he makes excellent sharpening systems that are in my opinion easier for newbies to get a consistent result with than waterstones, along with some very fine strops.

KD