Thread: Lathering a barber hone

Originally Posted by Hirlau

Why punish the hone ?

I wish that a hone had feelings so it could answer your question!

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

I would lap it a bit finer. May make it cut finer I know I restored an old barber hone and lapped it to 1500. Smooth sailing now. Then I treated it to restore some moisture. I forgot I even posted to this thread lol. Thanks for the pix it looks good.

It it probably is getting finer, like burnishing a hard ark. Smooths the cutting particles out and mellows them, in turn it cuts finer or doesn't cut as much. I'm not certain.


Cheers!

I would have thought that the hones were hydrophobic rather than hygroscopic, and even if you did put some moisture in that it would just evaporate out again, but that is just me guessing.
I am fairly happy with the finish on the hone, it seems to be working.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

I would lap it a bit finer. May make it cut finer I know I restored an old barber hone and lapped it to 1500. Smooth sailing now. Then I treated it to restore some moisture. I forgot I even posted to this thread lol. Thanks for the pix it looks good.

It it probably is getting finer, like burnishing a hard ark. Smooths the cutting particles out and mellows them, in turn it cuts finer or doesn't cut as much. I'm not certain.


Cheers!

I would have thought that the hones were hydrophobic rather than hygroscopic, and even if you did put some moisture in that it would just evaporate out again, but that is just me guessing.
I am fairly happy with the finish on the hone, it seems to be working.

Originally Posted by 32t

This is not in disagreement with what I am thinking.

I am not thinking about the drag of the water while honing but the drag of the stone against the steel.

The water with its surface tension will hold the steel away from the hone. Therefore creating less friction between the hone and the blade.

The addition of soap to the mixture will lessen the surface tension of the water and allow the steel to contact the surface of the hone to create more drag/abrasion of the steel.

Consider the difference in friction between a wet hone and a dry hone. A hone with beaded water is pretty much going to work like a dry hone because the beads usually get pushed right off the hone. One of the most glorious aspects of honing is the movement of the water wave in front of the hone and the transition to when the blade is undercutting the water when enough steel has been removed to improve the contact between the blade and the hone. I like to add a little lather to make sure that the water on the non-porous barber hone behaves that way. A dry hone, or a hone with beaded water, does not give that feedback.

I know I did not directly address your comment but instead sort of just approached it at a tangent at best.

Some hones are meant to be used dry and some declare they can be used dry, with water, or with lather. I'm not sure that any option makes that much of a difference in performance.

Originally Posted by edhewitt

I would have thought that the hones were hydrophobic rather than hygroscopic, and even if you did put some moisture in that it would just evaporate out again, but that is just me guessing.
I am fairly happy with the finish on the hone, it seems to be working.

It depends on the hone, though I do prefer the terms "porous" and "non-porous," as I consider them to be more accurate. There are barber hones of each type. The former beads water on the surface while the latter will soak up water placed on its surface.

Ed your hone looks to be a variant similar to a Swaty. I would assume that water beads up on it.

Originally Posted by Utopian

It depends on the hone, though I do prefer the terms "porous" and "non-porous," as I consider them to be more accurate. There are barber hones of each type. The former beads water on the surface while the latter will soak up water placed on its surface.

Ed your hone looks to be a variant similar to a Swaty. I would assume that water beads up on it.

From memory it does. Though I haven't wetted it for a while. Normally I just lather it, use it and then wipe it down on a towel.
I could give it a try tonight.

I remember reading that barber hones are hard work to lap but my atoma ate this one.

And I'm going to have to go back to trying full lather (fortunately I've been using Williams exclusively this week) on a few hones and blades.

Originally Posted by 32t

This is not in disagreement with what I am thinking.

I am not thinking about the drag of the water while honing but the drag of the stone against the steel.

The water with its surface tension will hold the steel away from the hone. Therefore creating less friction between the hone and the blade.

The addition of soap to the mixture will lessen the surface tension of the water and allow the steel to contact the surface of the hone to create more drag/abrasion of the steel.

This is what I was thinking as well. I do not mean that barbers necessarily consider surface tension though, indeed more along the lines of 'Dry hones suck. Oooh, look at all that lather.' But yes, reduced surface friction resulting in more aggressive steel abrasion.

I'm pretty sure the elastic tendency of liquids has an influence on both the surface the liquid occupies and the resistance at the liquid's own surface level. I don't think there's an argument here.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Consider the difference in friction between a wet hone and a dry hone. A hone with beaded water is pretty much going to work like a dry hone because the beads usually get pushed right off the hone.

I'm not too sure about that. For slurry or water to have any effect on the edge, you really don't need a lot of it. Just the tiniest amount working along the edge will have the same effect as an ocean of it covering the hone (except that the more water is on the hone, the easier it is to undercut, or at least more difficult to read for feedback, in my experience).

Originally Posted by Utopian

One of the most glorious aspects of honing is the movement of the water wave in front of the hone and the transition to when the blade is undercutting the water when enough steel has been removed to improve the contact between the blade and the hone. I like to add a little lather to make sure that the water on the non-porous barber hone behaves that way. A dry hone, or a hone with beaded water, does not give that feedback.

I found that when adding even the tiniest amount of detergent or soap, every edge pretty much irrespective of its sharpness will undercut water to the degree that the entire blade face will be covered by water.

I have only tried two or three barber hones but plenty of coticules, which are non-porous in their very nature. I just tried it with a blunt razor on my "beadiest" coticule (a mottled Les Latneuses) and the razor went from barely "penetrating" the water's surface to being covered in water after adding less than a pin's head amount of liquid detergent.

After adding a minimal amount of lather to clear water the effect was much the same, be it to a lesser extent compared to liquid detergent. I don't feel like I would get useful feedback and the fact that it is no longer water but soapy water would trouble the waters (harhar) for me enough not to rely on it. But if you feel it is a useful tool then, well, power to you.

Also on that particular hone I judge the edge based on the level of undercutting on clear water, even though during the first few strokes I lose most of . I have experimented with continually adding water but found it had no noticeable effect on the edge and shaving performance or feel.