Thread: Mid-range tips

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

I read the transition stone thread. Which is interesting indeed. I'm very glad you enjoy playing around with slurries. After a coticule and trying the dilucot method a ton... Not for me.

What's your definition of fine hard base?

My mid range tip of the day is be humble and take your time. I destroyed an edge today sadly had to bring down to 1k..

Yeah, coticule slurry can be quite aggressive. Good for certain situations, but generally probably not necessary and I find I can achieve the end result faster if I used an alternative. That said, on rare occassions, such as a few days ago, I will use it..

So what I've done the other day, I was away from home, had a DMT-C, a Dragon's tongue, a Coticule and a NEW Gold dollar razor on me (hence the necessity for the DMT-C). Don't ask... [emoji1] In addition, I had lyo, botan, dragon's tongue and coticule slurry stones. With a bit of experimenting and "jointing" a few times throughout, I've eventually managed to get my chinese lady to a shave-ready state. The heel is still problematic, but this was just an experiment and it worked quite well.

To bring the geometry to a somewhat acceptable state, I used the DMT. For bevel setting and mid range I used the DT hone as the base (with the mentioned slurries) and finally to get it to shave, I used the coticule (dilucot).

You asked for the definition of a hard&fine base. I would say there are many japanese hard stones that qualify here. I do have one that's very hard, probably level 10. I also use a european stone (from Montenegro) which is probably around level 9. I wrote about that stone here, not too long ago.

Although not hard at all, I had used a Thuringian with softer slurries (such as botan and tsushima) to get past the mid-range as well.

The fact is, my middle range progression tends to be different every time I hone. I dont hone too many razors, mostly my own, so on those ocassions I like to play around.[emoji6]

I used to have trouble in the middle stones too. It was a really frustrating time cause I seemed to have a great bevel, but the edge would never get there. These are some of the things I had to go through.

Pay attention. When the edge is popping hairs well after the 1k it's easy to become lax or stop concentrating. We all agree a good bevel is a fundamental requirement for a good edge, but each stone has an important part to play. Each stone has a job and you need to concentrate on using the stone to do that particular job.
Honing can be really enjoyable, but shouldn't be done for enjoyment. If you're trying to put a good edge on a razor, then the razor must come before you.
Pressure is a really important aspect. Someone said 50% less on each progressing stone. I vary the pressure a lot on each stone too. Start firm until edge and stone are in accord, then medium until they are in accord, then very light as though finishing. You can play around with a pressure pyramid too - this will help a lot in learning to feel an edge develop.
Just because you think a razor should be getting sharp doesn't mean it will get sharp.
Don't be afraid to use the thumb nail test. It really helps keep your edge developing.
A good technique is essential in this phase. You can use a lot more pressure on the 1k, and that pressure will allow you to keep the edge on the stone, but as you lighten up, if you're technique is dodgy you will be hitting the edge of the stones or not polishing it properly. Be very clear about how to hold the razor, how to move the razor, what your hand and wrist should be doing and what the elbow and upper arm should be doing. It's an oversimplification, but 1k is heavy and 12k is light - but a much greater variety of touch is required in this phase.

Learn to feel every part of the blade on the stone through your fingers and hand and arm. With a little practise honing and using a loupe you should be able to feel the scratch pattern without looking. This practise should also help you understand what parts of different types of blade are hard and easy. Practise your stroke really slowly making sure you monitor as much as you can.
There should be no luck in the honing sequence. Every part needs to be understood. Good results are easily attainable when sound knowledge and practical skill meet.

Well I’m late to the dance as always, but here’s my 2 cents on the midrange technique for those learning the ropes. Oz as usual has good advice and my bevel setter is also a 2k, a Shapton Pro.

- Measure the spine thickness above the heel, center, and toe on a “new to you” razor. They may not be the same on old worn razors or new Gold Dollars (lol). Knowing what you’re dealing with is priceless.

- Use magnification. Without it you’re flying blind. Really. Try to get a good quality loupe up to 10x. A Hastings triplet would be excellent. Cheaper ones work, but aberrations can be annoying when trying to “see” the actual meeting of the bevel planes.

- If you’re learning, have another go at the Sharpie test as you go to the midgrit and reduce pressure. It can help remind you of any stroke issues you have, which can also be dependent on the specific blade. Sometimes they smile or frown a bit and it can be hard to see with the naked eye.

- In general, reduce pressure as you go up the grit scale. You’re transitioning to polishing, which is usually done with very light pressure, the lightest, on the finisher. If you need more pressure to solve a specific issue - like your stone does better with a little more pressure - fine, but in general more polishing means less pressure.

- Use different angle strokes between stones. This technique along with a magnifier is kind of a Sharpie test. If you’re using angled strokes on the current hone and you see straight hone marks at the toe/heel/whatever, your stroke isn’t hitting all of the edge evenly. Please note that if you’re honing an old razor that’s been honed for years at a steep angle like on a narrow hone, the spine will be thicker above the heel and will taper to a hopefully uniform thickness further toward the middle. If this is the case and you use a 90-degree to the hone stroke and later an angled stroke, you’ll cut two different bevels which you can see if you look.

- Use more alternating strokes. Spending too much time and/or using too much pressure on one side can cause false edges, fins, foils, etc especially on aggressive synthetics. It’s better not to generate them to begin with, though sometimes it’s hard not to with synthetics.

- Make the final strokes on every stone light - light pressure produces a finer scratch pattern, might as well get the best out of especially the midgrit.

Hope this helps a little!

Cheers, Steve

I'm really thrilled with all the participation this thread has been getting.. Really great stuff guys. Keep it up !

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

I'm really thrilled with all the participation this thread has been getting.. Really great stuff guys. Keep it up !

All because you bumped the thread on the 2nd post

Originally Posted by onimaru55

All because you bumped the thread on the 2nd post

I'm glad you like that.. I myself thought it was quite hilarious.

Meanwhile today I had a little revelation... More like a big revelation. Maybe I should revisit some of my bevels! I am not going to lie I read some stuff today that made me think maybe I haven't been spending enough time on my bevels... I then read through the 1k shave thread and am going to try it with my king 1k..

Euclid said the bevel should be popping hairs off 1k and passing the tnt. My edges haven't ever popped hairs above skin off 1k but the tnt felt alright...

Mid range tip of the day. If going forward isn't working don't be afraid to look back.

It was a head shaking moment for me...

So after re reading the great tips given here I have to ask, when should I be moving on from 4k? It seems the consensus is when the 1k striations on the bevel are removed. After almost 100 strokes on my 4k there was still 1k striations present.. should I keep on keeping on? Or is there something else amok here..


How much of the stria should remain?

Originally Posted by Steve56

Please note that if you’re honing an old razor that’s been honed for years at a steep angle like on a narrow hone, the spine will be thicker above the heel and will taper to a hopefully uniform thickness further toward the middle. If this is the case and you use a 90-degree to the hone stroke and later an angled stroke, you’ll cut two different bevels which you can see if you look.

Thanks for bringing this up Steve. This is something I've thought about and tried explaining to others without success. At least now I know that there is someone else who sees this potential problem. It can also occur from honing heel forward to avoid the stabilizer or shoulder.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

Thanks for bringing this up Steve. This is something I've thought about and tried explaining to others without success. At least now I know that there is someone else who sees this potential problem. It can also occur from honing heel forward to avoid the stabilizer or shoulder.

It can be a problem if you don't realize it's there for sure. I've never gotten good results on old razors like this unless I just honed it the way the past owners did. You could always brute force it by thinning the spine above the heel and resetting the bevel, but usually it's best just to go with the flow.

Cheers, Steve