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Hi, I'm trying to restore an edge to my razor, but all it does is exfoliate. I made the mistake of honing the edge prior to straightening it. Is it necessary to joint or breadboard the edge or is there a better, ie way to preserve material, to straighten the edge? Also, short of having the experience of honing a thousand razors, how does one avoid overhoning?
Thank you in advance!Attachment 214396
I would breadknifed the edge then hone. Also check the spine wear. It looks like more wear in the center. You may have to put an extra layer of tape in that area to get an even bevel.
Oops, my woodworking jargon leaked out. Meant breadknife. Ok, I'll do that and tape the spine accordingly. Thank you very much!
I'm nit sure I agree. Why are you bread knifing the edge? Looking at that picture it looks to me that it has a smirk and that it not a bad thing. I think you need to use a heal leading x stroke with a swoop at the end and you will be ok. With lapped hones progress through from 1K, 4K, 8K, and check the bevel and edge frequently with a loupe. Be sure to keep the razor flat on the hone, and tape will be your friend when it comes to reducing wear.
I was thinking the same thing as Shaun with regards to leaving the smile as is and using the stroke he recommended. It is likely exfoliating and not shaving as you have not got the bevel set properly yet. Do not move off the 1k before you are certain the bevel is set properly. The bevel set makes or breaks a honing.
Bob
How does one know if the bevel is set? I probably need a cheap loop. For a wworking edge, it's sufficient to see a perfect reflection off the bevel and no reflection off the edge viewed on edge with rake lighting when first setting the bevel. Obviously the tolerances are tighter with a blade cutting hair on rubbery skin vs wood shavings on a rigid substrate. This is humbling. I'm very particular about sharpening my plane irons, which I've been doing for many years, but I'm terrible at this. Hopefully I haven't completely ruined the spine.
At this point you are OK. Tape it and it will be safe in the future. The spine and the edge sit on the hone. Keep your stroke smooth. I watched a lot of gssixgun videos. What ever videos you choose to learn from stick with one person, it is much less confusing that way. A cheap 30 or up to 60 power loupe is a great way to check to see if your bevel is set, as in a perfect apex. Also tree topping arm hair, if it is long enough is great too. If you can use two or three tests together it will help you on your way. One on one with someone or a meet is best.
The info here Category:Honing - Straight Razor Place Library may be of some help. You can use a magic marker to blacken the edge to see if you are honing all the way to the edge and yes a cheap loupe will be a big help in inspecting for this. You can use reflected light also as you have been doing.
I usually see if the edge will cleanly cut arm hairs all along the edge as a test for bevel set. If it does I do a few more light strokes on the 1K and move on.
You really have to watch the weight you apply to the blade as it is easy to use too much bend the bevel and hone behind the edge. Just the weight of the blade alone. Full and extra hollow ground razors are particularly sensitive to pressure applied but so are the other grinds.
I always tape the spine and replace if it shows wear to prevent excessive spine wear. Not everyone does this though.
Don't worry everyone finds honing a SR a challenge at the start regardless if the have experience sharpening knives or plane irons. Honing a SR is different enough that you have to learn a new technique and that takes time.
Bob
Ho breadknifing is needed. Breadknifing is totally unnecessary and only introduces a ton of honing and wear on the blade without any need for it.
The issue can be corrected with honing, start on a low grit hone, 400 for example, and hone the issue out. The process can be sped up by correcting with spine lifted from the stone at about 45*, then setting the bevel. If you breadknife you are going to lose a lot more steel than necessary to fix the problem.
Some better photos would help advise you. And yes, do read the first three post in the honing thread and the Honing section of the library. You have a nice razor there, would be a shame to damage it needlessly.
Do not do anything until you have the proper tools and a good understanding of how to hone a straight razor. The goal of honing a straight razor is much different than sharpening tools, requires much higher grit stones and a completely different technique.
What do you plan to hone this razor on?
I have the green and blue dmt diamond stones, Norton 4k/8k. I flatten that on a sanding screens on tempered glass. I use scribbled lead lines edged-to-edge for reference. I have green hone stick, and will have a leather strop and diamond paste (down to .25 micron) this week. I've tried green hone on mdf but might try a softer substrate like balsa if you guys think that'd help. Ideally I want to keep it as simple as possible when it comes to honing. I'll send more pics. I like the 45 degree idea, provided I'm slow enough to prevent chatter, in that it seems like a quick way to straighten a wavy edge. Creating a new bevel doesn't too hard. I'll read over the material suggested and the responses here before preceding. Thank you very much everyone!
If you are the only one who has honed the razor, it appears you may have honed into the shoulder. If it was in someone's else's hands, they seem to have honed into the shoulder.
That was all me. Probably did it when I was a teenager and had even less knowledge than today...which is scarey. Hopefully that's just a cosmetic issue.
I can't see well from the pic about the shoulder, but you have a frown starting from the toe about a 1/3 of the blade towards the heel.Attachment 214418Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsorman
You can find threads on fixing a frown, breadknifing is not the way.
I'd encourage you to fall back and regroup. You have a nice razor. Slow and steady wins the race. There are many threads for all levels of honing skills here, from the basic, to the level of Quantum physics, and into Mysticism. Good Luck!
The bottom half of the shoulder and the scratching near the bevel at the heel. It could be the light...
I would (perhaps this is sort of already said in total) joint the front of that razor at the tip so that it's a continuous smile. Then spot set the bevel on the jointed area until the bevel is uniform, and run through your progression.
I no qualms about jointing a spot just like you'd do with a chisel or iron to get the geometry back to proper, but it's something you'd need to do only one time ever to the razor and it's a minimal amount (at 90 degrees, the dip at the nose will disappear on a medium stone in a few strokes. It'll take more to rework the bevel at the front, but there's no reason to breadknife/joint the whole edge, only the part that needs to be removed.
Some of this stuff about changing the geometry of an edge reminds me of woodworking with hand tools. A lot of newbies to woodworking with hand tools only will want a method that they can use on every board, but eventually, being sparing and preserving what you have will lead you to work areas that need to be removed only. On a piece of rough lumber, that would mean planing the high spots off before going at it on the whole board. It's less effort and there's more wood left when you're done. Same as there will be more razor left here.
Of course, if you have a good non-abrasive linen, there's probably 200 years of shaves left in that razor, anyway. It'll be dropped or banged into something long before it actually wears out.
If you hone it heavily every couple of weeks, its prognosis isn't so good!!
All is well. I straightened the edge of the blade with 45 degree movements on a 45 micron diamond stone. Used a 120 power hand held microscope to check out the bevel as I progressively honed to 1 micron (i have yet to use my diamond pastes). Shaves like a dream now. After I found my mojo, I found that honing was pretty fast. Stropped and have been shaving with it for a few days. Very satisfied with the results. The next challenge is convincing my wife I'm not completely insane.
When my razor did that I changed my honing style and it stopped
