Yeh. I have a smaller one with 'Fratelli' scratched into it's side. Wish it was twice as big, though! ;)
I will be posting it here soon!
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Yeh. I have a smaller one with 'Fratelli' scratched into it's side. Wish it was twice as big, though! ;)
I will be posting it here soon!
Not exactly honing, but maybe something related that many of us Jnat folks are familiar with ...
I'm "resurfacing" my Shigefusa kitaej to try and remove burnish streaks from the saya :( . I used a small piece of koma, plus kiita and sword-grade uchigumori finger stones. Almost there! I may have to go one step back to mejiro or something similar. I also used a small worn Atoma plate to help generate the slurry.
But this is a knife that gets used, so maybe I'm done?
Cheers, Steve
These two came out of the shop today
Honey Horn Jospeh Elliot - Translucent Horn Wade& Butcher
Way beyond "Honing" these are complete restores started on the Chosera 1k to the Chosera 5k then went back to the old way of using the BBW and a Coticule in a progression and using slurry on both.. working to some super smooth Sheffield edges :)
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Thank god the others today were much easier to hone hehehe
Glen, do you know if Glen is coming back on The Walking Dead?
Glen thanks for setting up this thread. Dangerous eye candy on display here.
Here's what I did this morning - practiced some bevel setting on the ERN Ator and Kikuokan, professional 1K stone. I am currently using the wet TNT and tomato test to define when I finish - its a newbie getting to know the feel of a set bevel at the moment. Then did x strokes on 5K superstone, then went to my Nakayama Asagi on slurry diluting down every 20 strokes or so, then cleaned up the JNAT and did some strokes in the hand with clear water only.
The Kikuokan I have a good feeling about, the Ator...we will see.
Just a trouble shooting question here for you guys, I noticed this morning that when I circle stroke my muscles tend to like going the same way in both directions ie clockwise circles going up and down the hone. Is that an issue? I hadn't really thought about it before, and so did all of my bevel set with x strokes this morning which took longer!
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Just a trouble shooting question here for you guys, I noticed this morning that when I circle stroke my muscles tend to like going the same way in both directions ie clockwise circles going up and down the hone. Is that an issue? I hadn't really thought about it before, and so did all of my bevel set with x strokes this morning which took longer!
I had the same problem with circle direction.
I firstly stopped and slowed down and did circles in the correct direction.
Then science took over, Metal doesn't know what direction it is sharpened in. Scratch patterns are obliterated as far as I can see after circles. Especially on natural's, .
As a chef I used an Arkansas Black. Dipped it in water and ran it along the bevel up and down . I wore a grove in the hone. My knife was always sharp. I find keeping my circle count accurate bilaterally most important, followed by joining the edges.
Test my hypothesis by doing circles in the same direction , followed by 15 x strokes. Use your current tests to prove or disprove my findings and please share.
Dont bite to these numbers 20 strokes - 40 strokes .Every blade and situation need diferent strokes .
Dont count them , just make them count
Dont bite to these numbers 20 strokes - 40 strokes .Every blade and situation need diferent strokes .
Dont count them , just make them count
My theory on it,,, note the specific use of that word as there is no proof other then your own face
1. I don't use circles near as often as I once did, I use them mostly on restoration edges
2. I always turn the circle INTO the edge rather then away from the edge, it cuts better that way for me
3. I always Always follow circles with either X-strokes and/or Japanese swooping strokes to set the stria the way I want into the edge
4. The circles create odd stria, so I want those completely gone from the bevel before I move from the 1k
That is what gives me the most comfortable edges...
Is the 'odd stria' a cosmetic issue (or preference based on looks) or an edge issue? Or is this even a reasonable question?
Lots of different opinions there :shrug:
Myself I like the Stria looking a certain way and going in a specific direction before the final finisher, I feel it actually helps the smoothness of the edge because it facilitates a slicing action to the edge, it also lines up with the stropping action
OR it could all be in my imagination :p
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Today's work
Reset the bevel that was set on 2 layers of tape originally, with my Frictionite coarse side. I then proceeded to a dilucot without a coticule slurry. I used bbw instead and the edge seems like it will shave comfortably but isn't the sharpest. More work is needed. I'll let you guys know how the shave went.
The shave went pretty bad, tugging and not sharp enough. Clearly dilucot with bbw slurry isn't as easy as it looks. Added a layer of tape so I've got 1 layer now instead of 3. Will be much easier to drop back down to no layers once I get a coticule slurry stone.
Will report back tomorrow.
I would not have mentioned it, but an unnamed individual gave me a public flogging for having squirrelly stria...
So it got me thinking about stria and your post brought back the shame of having crap stria...
To continue, it seems that if the razor moves in any way but perpendicular to the hone, you will have slanty stria. In an X stroke the blade moves across the hone, hence the X shape. If you are moving down and across the hone, it seems the stria have to slant...in other words, if you have a hone wider than the cutting edge of the razor and move the razor straight down and back, the stria should be perpendicular to the spine. If you do anything else, I would guess 'sparklies?' Or does the spine stay perpendicular to the hone during an X? I don't see how but then I don't see a lot of things.
And doing any circles or swoops would seem to increase the likelihood of cross hatched stria or a reverse hyperbolic paraboloid?
I am visualizing rather than looking with a microscope which I don't have, thankfully.
Do you see what I'm saying?
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Just a simple touch up today. Naniwa speciality 10k followed by Gokumyo 20k. This Gotta is always a pleasure to hone. If all razors honed like this there would be no need for pro honers. It was one of the first razors I set a bevel on and from start to finish took no more than 15 mins.
Oh and on the strops she sings like a canary and shaves like a dream :)
Hang on, you never said anything about perpendicular stria, you said 'going in a specific direction.'
I like circles to get work done quicker. I like to see stria for feedback with my sight, I can see the depth getting shallower with each hone used.
Any question is reasonable.
Glenn spoke earlier about a haze on his finished blade. I see that alot with a coticule and circles.
Bright shiny stria I see with x-strokes. I see more deep stria with synthetics. Thus my theory but that goes along with what Glenn is saying.
What does your face say?
The stria should match your stroke.
x-stroke gives you a 45 degree stria.
Perpendicular stroke give you stria that is the same direction as the stroke. Simple.
When I swoop or Nike swish at the end of the stroke I get that kind of looking stria at the tip.
Well, I don't look at the stria beyond the first look at a new to me razor. From there it is all feel on the hones. I have a loupe but seldom, if ever, use it anymore.
When I am finished with the finisher, I ever so lightly touch the edge with my thumb pad and if it sticks all the way along the edge...time to strop and shave. I'm probably missing out on some of the fun. I once thought about a digital microscope but then the $$$ went elsewhere. I like seeing magnified pics of the honing progression a lot though, if someone else posts them.
Yep I have a very simple rule, I never go straight up and down the Hone, Strop, or Face, with a SR everything is done at a slant or pattern..
Again this seems to give the most comfortable edge for me..
As to a haze finish that is something that is also done with a slanting stroke, using Slurry and Dilution to achieve that finish not a change in pattern :shrug:
ps: I love that "Nike Swish" hehehe that is about exactly what it looks like :p
How do you decide when to move to the next hone if you dont test where the edge is ?
I test all through my honing. I try to involve as many of my senses as possible. Sound, hone feel, TPT, looking at the stria.
I sometimes do an extra 50 light strokes on my 1K to refine the edge still using all senses. ultimately I use TPT to decide when to move to the next hone. Granted I have tons of micro slices in one spot on my left thumb.
I'm a bit of a tester too - different ones for different stages in the honing progression but I certainly test the edge to know when to move along.
Having said that I can see how, after doing it for a while, you might come up with a "number of strokes" rule especially in the moderate to high grit stages. Not so much on the bevel set IME, but perhaps even there if you are careful and methodical.
But by far the easiest way is just test I reckon.
This is a great thread by the way!
James.
I actually forgot, I do test...hand hair...it has to cut at 1K and just get better up through 20K. I don't count strokes....funny thing is, about every time when I test, it passes...my crude method....I like the more sophisticated methods of the modern cutlers...even if I don't follow protocol. Agreed, cool thread...now back to HOTD.
Hone of the Day I believe its an Old Arkansas White
Set the bevel on Norton 1K and only had a BBW combo coti at the time.
That isnt the best set up for Carbon-135 but I muddled through.
Thanks to Utopian & Randydance to showing me the frown I didnt know it had, plus they put in a ton of work teaching me to fix it.
WW243 Stria is for you.
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Stria is my life now, thanks ultrasoundguy2003.
Does your bevel ebb and flow? Did you hone up into the shoulder?
Photos can be misleading.
Yes my bevel does all that.
I bought it brand new and took it to a meet to show off. Randydance Placed it on a true flat and a frown was shining through.
That embarrassed me but the guys then took to showing and making me fix it proper.
It now is a straight razor, ugly bevel and all. I dont want to remove more steel just to have a pretty bevel. Frances 6/8ths sure is smaller than Germanys measurement. The haze is my old set-up. the stria is from my hone shown. I showed my trying to Nike swish on the toe.
Very hard steel. Your eyes are good. I pushed too hard and you can see where I went past the base bevel.
And removing the steel on a diamond plate did that to the shoulder, price I paid to fix and learn from the good guys.
Hone of the day shows our wins and learning, If I show my shortcomings so that others can go to school on me, that's what teaching is about. Collectively we all will get better, stria and all.
Ok, I give up. What is the Nike swish stroke?
I might be doing it...but maybe not.
I know what a swish is...an old term I think. I know what Nikes are. Is a NS the same thing as a heel forward half circle?
I don't do it but the nike swish is a long curve with a little flick the other way at the end, right? So I'd guess that's what the stroke would be like.
Not sure why you'd flick at the end of the stroke to be honest, unless it's to hit the toe but I do that with a rolling stroke.
Anyway, each to their own and if it works it works. As they say, just do it..... :D
James.
This is making me want to make up my own stroke. I've got a name, I just need to work out the stroke: The Humpty Hump
Well, I'm trying to coin a new honing phrase at the moment but it's not related to a stroke type.
You know when new people start out, how some of them are really good honers in their forum posts but in reality aren't that great at honing?
I'm calling that the Volkswagen. As in, "Jimbo just did a Volkwagen in the hone of the day thread".
James.
Oh it is nothing new hehehe
It has had many names over the years but the same old stroke, just gets a new name each time somebody new discovers it and has never looked here
Been sitting there for 6 plus years and long before that when I described it on the forum..
Swooping X stroke or what ever you want to call it is quite useful on many razors :) especially if they have "Issues"
Or the Sheffield's that have so many bevels they litterally go Bumbity Bump down the hone when you try a Rolling-X hehehehe
They call me Humpty, I go bumbity bump bumpty
Hooking the swish
I don't have to jumpty...
Doing the humpty ,hump
aka Flava Flav.
Like you all trying to refine the toe and make a smile.
Nike swoosh is the best a rookie can describe what I am doing.
Thanks to Glenn and the other honers who described it for years:beer1: