Thread: Hone of the Day

Originally Posted by Maryland998

Sometimes I am of the same mind. My GOK 20K. Is the fish in the barrel solution to refreshing an edge.
Then the nostalgic side of me asks. "What did the guys use to hone these things when they were "new". As in I just bought this razor at the hardware store.
Now it needs sharpening.
Using the same methods of sharpening as they did, sometimes seem more appropriate. Rationalization? Probably. Hobby yes.
Ken

I dunno, Ken. With all the collective knowledge shared, could it be that we get better shaves than they did?
Gawd I hope so!

“I dunno, Ken. With all the collective knowledge shared, could it be that we get better shaves than they did?”
“Gawd I hope so!”

I don’t know either. A good Ark, Jnat, Slate and some swear by Coticules, I swear at them, for me the are a notch below.

But a synthetic progression, Jnat finish and 2-3 lite laps on a clean SG20 is pretty smoking, no-brainer edge, for most razors.

Experimenting with the number of laps does make a difference, more than 5-6 and it is a pure SG20 edge.

I think some folks have been shaving, pretty well for a long time off of naturals.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

“I dunno, Ken. With all the collective knowledge shared, could it be that we get better shaves than they did?”
“Gawd I hope so!”

They? The folks of old?

There's something to be said about their practical knowledge and use of daily skills for decades and centuries.
For example, using a scythe, the knowledge and skill the folks of the past had was tremendous. It's been the major tool for harvesting for centuries and millennia with the accompanied wisdom. It's an amazing tool and they knew how to use it, set-up the scythe how to peen and sharpen and use it a lot, hard work.

They knew much more and were much more capable than we give them credit for. Look at the amazing structures they've built with primitive technology that we almost can't even replicate with our "modern advanced highly intelligent" machines and tools. In many regards we got dumber. In a lot we got more intelligent.

We are more advanced technology wise, but not skill wise or in a wide spectrum of practical skills.

I loved harvesting with a scythe, I loved working with our Belgian draft horses, it was hard work, but it was a different way of doing things. One isn't better than the other. But the old way had much more charm.

I think many shavers of old had it mastered and figured out, a way of doing things that's been passed down from father to sons for a LONG time. You can't beat that. Of course we come very close, with the internetz. But our view in using a SR is different than back then, we're also obsessed. Of course also many couldn't get anything shave worthy out of a razor and stone. Also depending on the time frame.
Are the edges of today better? Doubtful, they had coticules, they had thuringers, they had jnats. Is it easier to hone nowadays? Absolutely, with all the synthetics it has become much less complicated or frustrating.

Do I still finish on a natural? You betcha! Does it beat anything a synthetic has given me? Yes, including the Suehiro 20K. But to each his own.

I'm positive the knowledgeable capable shavers of old had just as good an edge as we do today, maybe better.
I know my great-grandfather and my great-great grandfather's Coticules were tweaked for maximum performance, alas I was never able to ask for what exactly how they used it. Both Coticule and BBW side were heavily used and very darkened, heavily used with oil maybe? But the edge it gives is the smoothest edge off a Coticule I've ever experienced and I can't replicate it with any of my stones.
I know they shaved daily and never missed a single day. They must've been doing something right.

This came in a catalogue that was in the box with my new Norton--Recommended degree of angle for sharpening.

Yes, the folks back in the day surely did not obsess like some of us do.
It was get a shave and get to work!

“I'm positive the knowledgeable capable shavers of old had just as good an edge as we do today, maybe better.

I know my great-grandfather and my great-great grandfather's Coticules were tweaked for maximum performance, alas I was never able to ask for what exactly how they used it. Both Coticule and BBW side were heavily used and very darkened, heavily used with oil maybe? But the edge it gives is the smoothest edge off a Coticule I've ever experienced and I can't replicate it with any of my stones.

I know they shaved daily and never missed a single day. They must've been doing something right.”

So, after WWII and the advent of the Double Edge and the marketing of disposable razor blades, there was a massive switch to the disposable razors. The whole double edge marketing was designed to sell more blades. A “twist to open”, made it easier to change blades and use/buy more of them. The razor was the ploy to sell more blades, The Kurig coffee maker/Poloroid Camera of its day.

They would pee themselves if they knew what folks today are willing to pay for disposable blades.

Lost was a lot the knowledge that was passed down from father to son, in maintaining a razor edge. Just look at stones, Coticules and slates, there is so much information lost and some, very little hung on by a thread, with guys like Ardennes and a handful of old guys that did pass on what they knew and hunted down more lost information, before it was lost forever.

Look at the Damasks Steel story, and how quickly and easily that information was lost, except for guys like Penderay, Dauksch, Verhoeven and a handful of guys in home forges, around the world, independently. Tinkering, trying to reverse engineer true Damasks steel, making thousands of melts, to put lightening in a bottle, do we have a glimmer of how it was done. But even now, we are not absolutely sure, exactly or why some of it was done.

So, yea we may understand a lot, maybe more of what is going on between the steel and stone, and may have some faster and finer cutting stones, but has some of the magic technique been lost?

It is a fragile thing, knowledge, and can easily be lost in a generation or less. I heard of a college professor who gives his American born, college students the US citizenship exam, on the first day of each semester. No-one yet, has passed. It is not a difficult test.

We, some ways we are like, Pendray, Dauksch and Verhoeven. Honing, stumbling in the dark, but for us, it is so much easier to exchange information. The meeting between Penderay and Verhoeven was a chance encounter of someone who knew someone and put the two together.

There is a lot we know, but some we don’t, and probably much that, we don’t know, what we don’t know. The extra 2 percent.

Here are a couple nice videos about Pendray, Dauksch and Verhoeven, (

Al Pendray: Wootz Hunter

) and (

The Secrets of Wootz Damacus Stee

l).

Thanks to Marty and others for bret thought-provoking posts.

However, there seems to be an assumption that we cannot in modern times, reproduce the qualities of wootz. Tamehagane was made very similarly, as were steels stamped ‘acier fondue’ aka pot steel.

Maybe the steel we would produce today could exceed wootz, though maybe not look like it. But why would anyone make wootz steel today? What would you make with it that’s provably better in any given application than modern steels?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

“I'm positive the knowledgeable capable shavers of old had just as good an edge as we do today, maybe better.

I know my great-grandfather and my great-great grandfather's Coticules were tweaked for maximum performance, alas I was never able to ask for what exactly how they used it. Both Coticule and BBW side were heavily used and very darkened, heavily used with oil maybe? But the edge it gives is the smoothest edge off a Coticule I've ever experienced and I can't replicate it with any of my stones.

I know they shaved daily and never missed a single day. They must've been doing something right.”

So, after WWII and the advent of the Double Edge and the marketing of disposable razor blades, there was a massive switch to the disposable razors. The whole double edge marketing was designed to sell more blades. A “twist to open”, made it easier to change blades and use/buy more of them. The razor was the ploy to sell more blades, The Kurig coffee maker/Poloroid Camera of its day.

They would pee themselves if they knew what folks today are willing to pay for disposable blades.

Lost was a lot the knowledge that was passed down from father to son, in maintaining a razor edge. Just look at stones, Coticules and slates, there is so much information lost and some, very little hung on by a thread, with guys like Ardennes and a handful of old guys that did pass on what they knew and hunted down more lost information, before it was lost forever.

Look at the Damasks Steel story, and how quickly and easily that information was lost, except for guys like Penderay, Dauksch, Verhoeven and a handful of guys in home forges, around the world, independently. Tinkering, trying to reverse engineer true Damasks steel, making thousands of melts, to put lightening in a bottle, do we have a glimmer of how it was done. But even now, we are not absolutely sure, exactly or why some of it was done.

So, yea we may understand a lot, maybe more of what is going on between the steel and stone, and may have some faster and finer cutting stones, but has some of the magic technique been lost?

It is a fragile thing, knowledge, and can easily be lost in a generation or less. I heard of a college professor who gives his American born, college students the US citizenship exam, on the first day of each semester. No-one yet, has passed. It is not a difficult test.

We, some ways we are like, Pendray, Dauksch and Verhoeven. Honing, stumbling in the dark, but for us, it is so much easier to exchange information. The meeting between Penderay and Verhoeven was a chance encounter of someone who knew someone and put the two together.

There is a lot we know, but some we don’t, and probably much that, we don’t know, what we don’t know. The extra 2 percent.

Interesting stuff. We can learn from others however not everything has already happened. I believe we should not just copy and accept but create and think for ourselves. Developing our own thoughts instead of just taking on other peoples thoughts. Whether it is honing processes or understanding our reason for being here.
Asking questions and figuring out answers is time well spent and goes hand in hand with Natural stones