Thread: Hone of the Day

Originally Posted by Steve56

Thanks to Marty and others for bret thought-provoking posts.

However, there seems to be an assumption that we cannot in modern times, reproduce the qualities of wootz. Tamehagane was made very similarly, as were steels stamped ‘acier fondue’ aka pot steel.

Maybe the steel we would produce today could exceed wootz, though maybe not look like it. But why would anyone make wootz steel today? What would you make with it that’s provably better in any given application than modern steels?

There are far more varieties of modern steels than there was when Wooten damascus steel was the the king of steels. It is still a great steel when well produced, and it is far more showy. I understand why Pendray worked so hard to to solve the puzzle, to solve the puzzle. It was a puzzle that had puzzled many many people, for a long long time, solved by a clever farrier, who believed it could be done. I think there is romance in the steel, and it’s not always about buying inventory. Passion, pride of workmanship and a drive from curiosity makes perfect sense to me.

Absolutely RezDog. They say that two of the properties are the pattern and flexibility from pearlite, but other steels may perform the same. Certainly a lot of romance in the quest. However, that quest isn’t too difficult if you understand materials science, which the people in the second video clearly do, or are discovering.

In a past life, I did safety and health support for a materials science division at a national laboratory. As a part of that role I had to understand the basics to understand the hazards. I can tell you with great certainty that if you throw the $$ at these people they will make genuine wootz by the ton, but no one has that much money, lol. They were making the next gen carbon fiber at half weight and I asked them if they could make legs (just tubes) for my carbon fiber Gitzo tripod. Sure we can! Hmmmm, OK, how much? Oh, lets say $20,000. That was a real answer. I declined.


And lets not diminish the makers of the ancient wootz, who had no electronically controlled furnaces, adjustable powered hammers, digital thermometers, microscopes etc, things that are almost taken for granted today. It’s one thing to replicate wootz in a lab, let’s see you do it in your back yard with a clay pot and a hand hammer.

Originally Posted by Steve56

Absolutely RezDog. They say that two of the properties are the pattern and flexibility from pearlite, but other steels may perform the same. Certainly a lot of romance in the quest. However, that quest isn’t too difficult if you understand materials science, which the people in the second video clearly do, or are discovering.

In a past life, I did safety and health support for a materials science division at a national laboratory. As a part of that role I had to understand the basics to understand the hazards. I can tell you with great certainty that if you throw the $$ at these people they will make genuine wootz by the ton, but no one has that much money, lol. They were making the next gen carbon fiber at half weight and I asked them if they could make legs (just tubes) for my carbon fiber Gitzo tripod. Sure we can! Hmmmm, OK, how much? Oh, lets say $20,000. That was a real answer. I declined.


And lets not diminish the makers of the ancient wootz, who had no electronically controlled furnaces, adjustable powered hammers, digital thermometers, microscopes etc, things that are almost taken for granted today. It’s one thing to replicate wootz in a lab, let’s see you do it in your back yard with a clay pot and a hand hammer.

While not about forging a straight razor/If anyone has a spare hour to watch this, they might find it very informative.

Yep cudarunner, tamehagane was a pot steel, using pine charcoal I believe, instead of plant leaves. Same basic process, build a large clay ark, 20 feet long, 10 feet wide. Put a layer of pine charcoal in the bottom, then layer iron sand and pine charcoal up to the top or near it. Set it on fire. When it burns out after 1-1/2 to 2 days, let it cool and break off the clay ark and collect the sponge-like tamehagane iron. Beat and fold it a million times (to purify it into steel) into a katana. And you have no power source other than your hands and a charcoal forge. Like wootz, tamehagane is one piece of steel, it isn’t layered

One of the things that I noted in the second video on wootz is that their furnaces are small, and that’s been noted in other wootz records. As above, a tamehagane ‘furnace’ is very large, tens of feet. I think that the large size maybe ‘evened things out’ over a much larger volume than the smaller wootz pots could do, increasing the chances for a usable volume of material.

Even today, the knife maker Shigefusa hamono (who once made razors with Iwasaki, and equally hard to find and equally expensive) only makes carbon steel blades because he does not have/use a gas furnace, the work is pretty traditional. He uses a Swedish steel core, and his is the only kitchen knife that I could actually shave with - I only did it as a test. I could not shave with Takeda, Yoshikane, etc.

My intent of posting the video was so that the vast majority of us who aren't knowledgeable with the technical aspects could see how those masters from long ago learned how to make such wonderful steels without having the science that we do today.

With that said, science does step in and help explain what is happening. Including how the softer low carbon steel was used in the middle and the higher carbon was on the outside. This arraignment also is why when the straight sword is quenched that the curve is created.

I personally found that the 3-4 day process of making the initial steel that the master did without sleep very impressive.

New acquisition. A nice big slab of creamy Ozuku Awesado.

After reading how "advanced" a super hard Ozuku can be to hone on, I must have gotten lucky. My first honed edge was a nice little 5/8 Grah&Plumacher Blue steel Solingen piece. The resulting shave was one of the finest to date. I am in love with this stone.

Nice stone. I like how it is stamped on the side.