Thread: advice on stone purchase needed....

After having my norton 4k/8k and following heavyduties recomendations i am ready to get a finishing/polishing stone, i was considering 2 options, i can not decide due to lack of experience honing so i decided i will blindly follow your advice( all you gents from the forum).
I have 2 options.
-Kitayama stone 12.000 grit for $90 dollars.

-belgium stone brand new from a reputable barber collector for $200 dollars, he had told me that after many years experience this is the best stone to sharpen your razor on earth...period. he couldnt give me the grit number...could he be right?..i kind of feel he knows what he is talking about....
i just want to get a stone that will get the job done.....
i will apreciate your comments .....heavyduty..are you there..????

Get a 6x2 double sided belgian stone new from Howards site for about 120 dollars or better yet PM Howard and let him work with you!!
Howard is a member here and his home page is"www.theperfectedge.com

The coticule is the preffered finishing stone of most of the honemeisters on this forum including Lynn. I would definately go with the belgian coticule over the Kitiyama (or any other finishing stone for that matter); however, $200 is too much to pay for the stone. Howard at theperfectedge.com sells yellow coticules new for much cheaper. Even the 8X3 stones that he sells only cost $175. I think that the 6X2 yellow is a great deal at $75 and I think that it is easier to use than the bigger and more expensive (but quicker) 8X3, but I do own both. Like the previous poster stated you could also get a 6X2 natural with a blue and yellow side for $125 which would be nice to have; however, I find that I prefer to just use the Norton 4K/8K and the yellow coticule.

If you do purchase a coticule I would also highly recommend purchasing the cotigura stone for $18 so that you have the option of using the stone with or without the slurry. It seems like the stone cuts quicker when used with a slurry, and leaves a smoother bevel when used with just water without the slurry. The last thing that I would highly recommend looking into purchasing is the DMT course 325 grit diamond stone to lap your stones with. I find that the DMT course works very quickly and effectively and leaves a MUCH smoother finish on the Norton than the Norton Lapping stone, and it will always stay perfectly flat. It is a little bit expensive to buy all this up front; however, these stones (along with the skill to use them properly) are all that you will need to maintain your razors forever.

I have to agree the coticule is the way to go. I have a Japanese North Mtn Hone and its a nice finisher but the Coticule is better and I would contact Howard. The only caveat is unless the coticule you are considering is some antique ultra high quality stone, then it might be worth it but I got mine from Howard and it works super.

I wouldn't worry about a flattening stone for the coticule at this point. The coticule is not like the Norton which wears relatively quickly. Unless you get a poorly cut coticule it should not need initial flattening and you will be an old man before you need to flatten it unless you hone every day and even then it will go a long time.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I have to agree the coticule is the way to go. I have a Japanese North Mtn Hone and its a nice finisher but the Coticule is better and I would contact Howard. The only caveat is unless the coticule you are considering is some antique ultra high quality stone, then it might be worth it but I got mine from Howard and it works super.

I wouldn't worry about a flattening stone for the coticule at this point. The coticule is not like the Norton which wears relatively quickly. Unless you get a poorly cut coticule it should not need initial flattening and you will be an old man before you need to flatten it unless you hone every day and even then it will go a long time.

I definately agree that the coticules rarely need to be lapped; I have used mine on over 40 razors and it is still perfectly flat according to my starrett machinist rule. Howard told me that he would be surprised if I needed to lap the coticule as often as once a year. I was suggesting purchasing the DMT diamond stone to lap and clean the surfaces of the Norton stone; however, it can also be used with any other stone including the coticule.

Ive been getting good results with spyderco ceramic stones Iuse adouble sided pocket hone for my travelling kit

Originally Posted by heavydutysg135

I definately agree that the coticules rarely need to be lapped; I have used mine on over 40 razors and it is still perfectly flat according to my starrett machinist rule. Howard told me that he would be surprised if I needed to lap the coticule as often as once a year. I was suggesting purchasing the DMT diamond stone to lap and clean the surfaces of the Norton stone; however, it can also be used with any other stone including the coticule.

Can a cotigura stone be used with a belgian blue stone to form slurry? Thanks.

Yes they can. Howard recommends using the yellow cotigura to start the slurry on both stones, and that is how I use mine.

There is so much information about stones and so many good stones out there that I really feel for the guy who is just starting out and wants to just get a great shave. First, let me thank everyone here for tooting my horn as it saves me the trouble! heh, heh, jusssssst kidding! The coticule is and has been the standard for barbers for a really long time. It's not that other stones won't do the job either. It just seems that is what they've settled on. The Tim Zowada study has given us some insight as to why and if you haven't seen his photos yet, by all means go to www.tzknives.com and study them.

In my personal collection of Hones of Planet Earth, I have about 300 - 400 stones from pretty much everywhere. I've tried them all and of course tried them on razors and anything else that has an edge including sheep shears, reel lawn mowers, drawknives, Randall knives, scythes, etc. I used to love the Arkansas stones and used them extensively until I found the Belgians. The yellow belgian coticule is said to be an 8000 grit waterstone but many feel it acts more like a 10k; the blue belgian is a 4000 grit but acts more like a 6000 grit. Unless I've got a really dull eBay or yard sale razor, I use the coticule then a natural leather strop. If I've got a razor someone had been using to cut open cardboard boxes, I go to a DMT 1200 to reestablish the edge, then a blue and then a coticule and strop.

As you pursue your interest in this (and I hope you do) you'll find different razors react differently to different stones and honing techniques. My best advice? Get yourself some high quality stones like the belgians, thuringians, eschers, etc. and start honing. No amount of advice will get you to expert status better than your hands, ears, and whiskers informing your honing. I even use my nose! Some stones have a particular scent when you rub them hard with the heel of your hand and once you know what that scent is, you can pick it up sometimes when you're honing.

Good luck, keep practicing, and keep shaving as that's the best technique for testing your abilities.

The info you have been given is pretty good. There is another option. Just use a chrome oxide pasted paddle strop instead of the finishing hones. You just may find that you like the resulting edge quite well. In addition you will find that even if you purchase the Belgian stones you may very well also finish up with the 0.5 micron chrome oxide pated paddle strop.

It really needs to be said that the "finishing" stones and the abrasive pastes are a luxury and not absolutely necessary. I and many others are able to obtain wickedly sharp edges without them. It is just easier to do if you have them.