Thread: Diamond Plates

OK. Diamond Plates aren't new. They've been around since the 70's to take words from DMT and Eze-Lap.

The two American companies that seem to be neck and neck with each other for the north American market. Not a big fan of Atomas, not that I've tried them, just no interest.

I also don't care for the no name ebay diamond plates. No way I'd put my razors on those.

So I am getting an Eze Lap SF/F 8x3 for Christmas. This is the exact same as the DMT E/F. The plate is 1200/600 for those of you that don't know or want to look it up.. I chose the eze lap because I've heard it's better for steels then the DMT but less good for lapping. Not a huge issue I just wanted to try something new. The eze lap looks more appealing to me. I digress.

I have been looking for a diamond plate for multiple reasons. I've got a Dia-Flat for lapping but I wanted something a bit finer to lap my coticule when needed. I also wanted a stone to quickly set bevels on that didn't require constant flattening. My king seems to dish a ton so I'd rather set a bevel on a diamond plate.. especially when you've got to lap a stone in the middle of setting a bevel... that drives me nuts.

Here's where the issue comes in. The diamonds cut deeply and therefore leave scratches in the bevel that take extra work on subsequent hones to alleviate. Hmm.. now that statement is open to a lot of interpretation.

How much extra work are we talking? I only hone for me and occasionally a friend of mine and I don't set bevels that often but when I do its usually on a train wreck razor.

If followed by a coticule with slurry or bb with thick slurry are the "deep scratches" from a 1200 going to be easily taken care of in a reasonable amount of time? A few extra minutes don't mean all that much to me as I'm using a slower method of honing to begin with and not honing 30 razors a day.

I already have it coming my so advising me to get a chosera or shapton glass or norton is futile. I don't know what it is but I really dislike Japanese hones. .

Thanks in advance..

SS

Sorry but if you want to set bevels with a diamond plate, then you should reconsider your lack of interest in Atomas. They are far more uniform in diamond height and leave a lot less of a mess on the bevels than any other diamond plate I have used. I use the 400 for rapidly hogging off steel for major repair work and easily can follow it with either the Atoma 1200 or can just as easily go straight to any 1k hone.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Here's where the issue comes in. The diamonds cut deeply and therefore leave scratches in the bevel that take extra work on subsequent hones to alleviate. Hmm.. now that statement is open to a lot of interpretation.



I already have it coming my so advising me to get a chosera or shapton glass or norton is futile. I don't know what it is but I really dislike Japanese hones. .



SS

Not really any interpretation, it cuts the holy hell out of the steel leaves deep striations and leads to a harsh fragile edge..

They work really well for pre bevel restoration work, and there is a trick to using them for that so you don't tear up the edge as bad, but basically you need to from the steel then re-set the bevel on something that isn't tearing gouges into the steel

Now that was the truth, but I sure you can find somebody that thinks they work just fine out there

What if I follow my 1200 with a few licks on the king 1k to clean up the edge. Get the bevel set with the 1200 and smooth it out with the 1k. Just to speed the process up a bit.

I use a 325 dmt and a 1200 dmt for restoration then clean it up on my king 1k. If you lap the king constantly it's a good cutting stone, if you let it go it glazes from its own slurry fairly quick and then almost doesn't cut at all. Either way what Glen said has been my experience as well. Setting a bevel with a diamond plate will most likely give you problems later in you r honing progression. I found that if I kill my bevel from the dmt then reset it on the king I avoid any weak edges.

So, you can set a bevel on a 1k diamond plate, but…

How long it will take to remove the deep stria, depends on how much pressure you use.

I routinely use a 400 plate for heavy correction and to begin to grind the bevels to shape the bevel, not fully, with the spine off the hone. The bevel can be set fully or close to meeting, leaving a thin sliver of metal between the bevels on a 1k diamond plate with light pressure, (let the diamonds do the work) leaving much shallower stria that can be easily removed by a 1K synthetic stone. Soapy water and or Windex work well as a lubricant on a diamond plate. Charlie Lewis has a good video on this.

Then, re-set the bevel on a 1k to remove all the diamond stria, most any synthetic, (King works just fine) smooth the bevels and remove any deep stria, jointing the edge once or twice ensures, a clean, chip free edge, and will reset in 10-15 laps. From there, you could easily go to a BBW and Coticule to refine and polish the bevel and edge.

This is not a technique I recommend for new honers, if you use too much pressure and cause deep stria, you may find yourself resetting the bevel several times, to get to good steel and avoid micro chipping at the finish stone, or after a shave or two and stropping. It is a common new honer complaint, where the edge breaks down after a couple stropping. I suspect, either the bevels were not fully set or high pressure and aggressive stone or a diamond plate was used. Any time you save, you end up losing by having to fully re-hone.

I use diamond plates and 6 or 800 grit stones, only when I have to fully grind a new bevel when correction has been made and no bevel exist, other wise use an 800 or 1k, it is safer, the edge will be stronger and you avoid the risk of damage to the steel at the edge and a lot of do over work.

So to answer your question… it depends… on how much pressure you use.

The bevel setting of a razor, like pouring a foundation of a building, is so important, that speed is not the issue, getting it perfectly square, level and plum are the issues, because like in honing everything is built upon the bevel set. If you get it wrong, you have to start over…

Ah Euclid..

Thank you for breaking it down.. I don't plan on abandoning my king 1k but adding another addition to my hone family. So I'll break it down on my words so I understand better. Set the bevel or get close on the diamond plate. Joint and then reset on the king 1k. Use light pressure on the diamond plate with soapy water. Test often to see where I'm at so I don't overdo it.

Would I be better served going coticule with slurry then to bb with slurry? Due to the coticule being more aggressive and cutting faster. It would be more apt to remove deep scratches if I don't go to king after diamond plate.

(I have dropped the w on Belgian Blue. Sick of large women porn popping up on my browser whenever I type it in on Google)

The third picture at the site; https://jendeindustries.wordpress.co...razors-part-1/ shows some chips at the same places where gouges show further back on the bevel (IIRC these pictures are a knife edge not a razor, but for discussion it does not matter) I used to think that this type of chip was actually just an exposed groove, but it is clear that the groove is completely honed out just behind the edge. I now believe that the steel does get damaged when the edge hits the high particle straight on and then the particle goes on to cut a gouge in the bevel. In a softer hone, a rogue particle has a better chance of fracturing or simple moving out of the way and doing less impact on the edge.

Soppy water and Windex work well on Diamond plate to keep from loading up when removing a lot of metal, like grinding a new bevel where one does not exist, which is the only time to use a diamond plate for beveling. Use plain water on the King.

Here’s

Charlie’s video,

he is cutting a bevel on a razor fresh off the grinder, note how he kills the edge.

If you completely set the bevel with Diamond you will have to remove the edge and a lot of the bevel with a 1k synthetic. But if you just get the bevels close, not meeting with the diamond, then set it fully on the synthetic and remove the deep stria on the bevel, you may be ok, depending on how much pressure you use. It’s all about how deep the diamonds cut into the bevel which will result in a jagged and weak edge.

From a 1k go to a BB with a thick slurry to remove all the 1k stria, then polish on a Coticule thinning to water.

Been a while since I have done that with a coticule so I don’t recall how long that will take, but you can use some pressure on the BB. A 3 or 4k would really make your life a lot easier. I really do think the 3-4 k stone is a very important stone in the progression and there is a good thread on that, The Transition stone, here. Some BB’s are aggressive and can do it but may take some time.

Even if you don’t hone the bevels to meeting using Diamonds you may still get chipping at the finish stone. If you do removing steel down to solid steel is the only solution, re bevel set or breadknifing.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Just to speed the process up a bit.

Right there is the problem...

In fact it is the basis of most of the problems for people on this site regardless of if it is Shaving, Stropping, or Honing, what is the huge hurry ???