Thread: To splurge or not...

Originally Posted by Utopian

There some basic problems with the Norton Flattening Hone.

A) It does not start out very flat, so before you use it to flatten anything you have to flatten it.

B) After you use it to flatten a hone that is not flat, it will have worn unevenly, so it will no longer be flat. Also, of course, that means the hone you tried to flatten with it will not be completely flat either.

C). After using it to somewhat flatten a hone, you will have to re-flatten the flattener.

So the short answer which I was hoping would come out is you if able should invest in a Quality Lapping plate.
If you ask Utopian he can and will give you quality options at a variety of price points .
Did I mention he loves to hone?? So this would be a good time to ask and do so research based on his suggestions for a surefire lapping plate.
I/We just want you to be successful, you have chosen good hones, flat hones,shwarf free are a requisite to good edges.

Yea, using the Norton flattening stone is a bit tricky. I had one I used to flatten a couple of pocket knife sized Arkies. Before I realized what was going on the center was dished. I was using a lot of circles at the time, or a straight back and forth push.

At any rate, the thing certainly wears faster than naturals. Might be less of a problem on synthetics, but you still need to prep the flattening stone surface because it's basically the same as any other man made hone - comes with a rough surface. 320 grit sand paper or loose SIC on a ceramic slab from the hardware store.

I put my flattening stone in the bottom of the sink and use figure 8 motions. Remember to flip both the hone, and the flattening stone 180 degrees every now and then.It will stay in flat, or at least flatter longer, if you change it up so that both stones get even wear across the surface. You want to avoid what I did with my first flattening stone lol.

Or you can avoid it all together with a diamond lapping plate. I think the most common suggestion I see is a DMT 320.

Great advice given. I've done the lapping plate thing and for me the SIC is easiest and quickest. Don't have to worry about lapping the lapping plate. DMTs are good but pricey.

You have several options available. Do what you think is most effective for you. At the end of the day they are all different means to the same end!

Yeah, I should point out that a lot of this stuff depends on a matter of degrees. If someone is going to lap/refresh frequently, then the Norton can be a pain. If it is infrequent, then it can be good enough.

So wow, I stepped away and so much info! Reminds me why I love SRP so much. Ok so norton flattening stone sounds like it may not be the ticket I was hoping for. So i'll start first by asking what is this 'SIC' several have mentioned I'm not familiar with it?

Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

So the short answer which I was hoping would come out is you if able should invest in a Quality Lapping plate.
If you ask Utopian he can and will give you quality options at a variety of price points .
Did I mention he loves to hone?? So this would be a good time to ask and do so research based on his suggestions for a surefire lapping plate.
I/We just want you to be successful, you have chosen good hones, flat hones,shwarf free are a requisite to good edges.

Ok so, as recommended by ultrasoundguy2003's posting, Utopian what would be your recommendations at the various price points?

Originally Posted by RazorCut

So wow, I stepped away and so much info! Reminds me why I love SRP so much. Ok so norton flattening stone sounds like it may not be the ticket i was hoping for. So i'll start first by asking what is this 'SIC' srveral have mentioned I'm not familiar with it?

It's just the abrasive in sandpaper but in powder form that you can apply yourself. At least that's what I think it is. Lots of guys use it, like it, and spread it. I think it's too much hassle for what it's worth. Buy a dmt 325 and never look back. No powders, no mess, no flat piece of tile or glass to worry about. Granted you save a few bucks, but in my mind not dealing with the extra mess more than makes up for the extra cost of a dmt. I bought mine when I first started honing over 2 years ago. How long does sic powder last?

Originally Posted by prodigy

It's just the abrasive in sandpaper but in powder form that you can apply yourself. At least that's what I think it is. Lots of guys use it, like it, and spread it. I think it's too much hassle for what it's worth. Buy a dmt 325 and never look back. No powders, no mess, no flat piece of tile or glass to worry about. Granted you save a few bucks, but in my mind not dealing with the extra mess more than makes up for the extra cost of a dmt. I bought mine when I first started honing over 2 years ago. How long does sic powder last?

The loose grits can serve a great purpose for lapping, but they are not of much use for refreshing a hone surface.

Originally Posted by RazorCut

Ok so, as recommended by ultrasoundguy2003's posting, Utopian what would be your recommendations at the various price points?

Okay, low to high by price...

1. I have heard that there are cheap diamond plates on ebay. I know nothing about them and have never even looked them up. I know nothing about their quality or utility.

2. ChefKnivesToGo has two sided (400/1000) plates that appear to be similar to the Trend two sided (300/1000). I have never used them but their design seems good (as is that of the Trend plate) and others here have recommended them.

3. The DMT DiaSharp plates, especially the D8C 325 grit. This is the workhorse so many of us have used for years. DMT did not design, intend, guarantee, or recommend this plate for lapping but it still works great for lapping and refreshing.

4. The Atoma plates have diamonds that are organized into little clusters. I put off trying these for quite a while because of the way they looked. The diamonds are mounted onto a thin layer of metal that is then somehow glued onto a thicker plate. Honestly it looked to flimsy. I was wrong. They work great and are extremely durable. Also, they work much better for edge restoration work. The 400 can quickly hog off steel but the scratches left on the bevel and edge are easily and quickly removed by a 1k hone. It also works well for lapping and refreshing. I consider them to be significantly better than the DiaSharps.

5. The Trend double sided plate costs more, but it is double sided. It works great for lapping and refreshing.

6. The Shapton DGLP. This is the one strictly for the hone fanatics among us. Yes it is expensive, but it is a joy for refreshing. Years ago I asked Lynn if it was worth it. He said I never would regret buying it and I certainly never have. The highly uniform diamonds are organized to allow the quick dispersion of slurry to allow very clean refreshing of hone surfaces. I would never never ever lap any hone with this. It strictly is for refreshing the surface of 1k and higher synthetic hones.

Originally Posted by Utopian

The loose grits can serve a great purpose for lapping, but they are not of much use for refreshing a hone surface.




Okay, low to high by price...

1. I have heard that there are cheap diamond plates on ebay. I know nothing about them and have never even looked them up. I know nothing about their quality or utility.

2. ChefKnivesToGo has two sided (400/1000) plates that appear to be similar to the Trend two sided (300/1000). I have never used them but their design seems good (as is that of the Trend plate) and others here have recommended them.

3. The DMT DiaSharp plates, especially the D8C 325 grit. This is the workhorse so many of us have used for years. DMT did not design, intend, guarantee, or recommend this plate for lapping but it still works great for lapping and refreshing.

4. The Atoma plates have diamonds that are organized into little clusters. I put off trying these for quite a while because of the way they looked. The diamonds are mounted onto a thin layer of metal that is then somehow glued onto a thicker plate. Honestly it looked to flimsy. I was wrong. They work great and are extremely durable. Also, they work much better for edge restoration work. The 400 can quickly hog off steel but the scratches left on the bevel and edge are easily and quickly removed by a 1k hone. It also works well for lapping and refreshing. I consider them to be significantly better than the DiaSharps.

5. The Trend double sided plate costs more, but it is double sided. It works great for lapping and refreshing.

6. The Shapton DGLP. This is the one strictly for the hone fanatics among us. Yes it is expensive, but it is a joy for refreshing. Years ago I asked Lynn if it was worth it. He said I never would regret buying it and I certainly never have. The highly uniform diamonds are organized to allow the quick dispersion of slurry to allow very clean refreshing of hone surfaces. I would never never ever lap any hone with this. It strictly is for refreshing the surface of 1k and higher synthetic hones.

Ok now I'm confused. Please explain to me the difference between lapping a hone and refreshing a hone. If you only use it to "refresh" a synthetic stone, then what are you using to lap them and natural hones. It almost sounds like a little bit of excessive OCD tendencies to put such a strong emphasis on two things that are essentially identical. The name of the DGLP is "lapping plate", so where lies the issue with using such and expensive tool for a reason other than what it was specifically designed for?

My usual routine is to lap, also called refreshing in my vocabulary, with a dmt 325. I then use a large coticule to smooth everything out. I've never once had an issue with a loose diamond, or any other issue associated with using a diamond plate on a hone. Then there's the fact that perfect "flatness" is not really that necessary beyond extreme circumstances. Just look at any old hones used by barbers, they are almost all severely dished out from never, ever, being lapped flat. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: utopian I'm in no way trying to start an argument. I value a lot of the information you have to share. This topic is very interesting to me and I'm simply trying to learn more.

Lapping is done to make a hone flat. Refreshing is done to renew a hone surface to expose fresh honing material, to remove accumulated swarf, and/or to release some slurry.

Regular refreshing has the cumulative effect of helping to keep the stone flat, thereby reducing or eliminating the need for future lapping.

I do not consider them to be the same thing as they are done for different purposes.

Yes the DGLP is a lapping plate but I think mine is about 7 years old and is still going strong partly because I never have abused it. I have other cheaper plates for lapping so I use the DGLP only for the purpose it excels--refreshing.