Thread: Shapton GlassStone® Sharpening System

How do Shaptons compare to coticules and Nortons speed wise? Are they slow or fast cutters? I am still looking for a coarser grit than the coticule for my razors but do not look forward to the hassle of Nortons that have to spend their days in a fish tank, need lapping (lapping stones cost a bit as well).

I lapped my norton on sandpaper on my countertop, which saved the space and (at least short-term) the expense of the lapping stone. I've got the shapton lapping plate (the iron one, not the diamond one), but after the initial lapping I mostly use it as a base nowadays; I generally lap my Shaptons against each other.

The Shaptons do need lapping, but not nearly as much as the Norton. Speed-wise the Shaptons seems somewhat faster, though they're hard to compare since there isn't a 1:1 correspondence with the Norton hones - a Shapton 8k (1.8 micron) is substantially finer than a Norton 8k (3 micron), and in my experience is comparable to a coticule. The Shapton's aggressiveness is one of the biggest issues with honing a razor on them - they're so fast that it is easy to overhone the edge. You have to use a very light touch and use them dewey-wet to avoid too much suction effect (dewey = more than damp, but less than puddles). I rehoned a Puma last night on my 8k and 15k and it took 4 laps on the 8k and 5 laps on the 15k: 3x8k, 2x15k, 1x8k, 3x15k). The last three laps on the 15k I stropped and hair-tested after the second stroke; it was close but not quite there so I gave it one more stroke which did it. Shaved with it this morning and it was great. I may give it a few laps on the newspaper paddle for some extra smoothness but that's it; if I do my part on the 15k then the chrome oxide doesn't bring a whole lot to the party.

So the glass stones need to be lapped? I thought the honing surface was just the surface texture on the glass. But if they are to be lapped that would destroy it. So out goes my theory.

If these hones actually maintain their abrasiveness through a certain depth that makes these very attractive options for finishing hones.

@ mparker:

I was looking for coarser grits e.g. 1K and 4K. Is there a risk of overhoning in that grit range?

And why, if they are so much faster, do many of us still use the Norton? Is it force of habit or our conservative character? On one of the knife forums someone commented once that straight razor users are considered to be very conservative and traditionalist

Originally Posted by mparker762

They are also pricey compared to the Norton, though they can seem downright reasonable compared with some of the natural stones. And there are very few members that use the Shapton stones; you'll have a much wider network of experienced people available if you stick with the norton and coticule.

Arre they really? A single grit Norton at Classic Shaving is more expensive than a single grit Shapton. Of course double sided Nortons are cheaper than 2 Shaptons but if Shaptons are so much faster: wouldn't a single grit Shapton do?

I have the 8k shapton, (and an Arkansas surgical stone which I don't use)and that is all. I get a nice keen edge on my razor, but it has not passed the hanging hair test, probably because I have only been honing for about 2 months, and still learning the tricks of the trade. I still get a very comfortable, bbs shave with no irritation, so I don't kill myself, or my checkbook, in worrying about getting that perfect edge with additional pastes, stones, etc... . Maybe when I come into some more money, and doesn't need to be spent elsewere I will increase my inventory of stones. in my humble opinion, the 8k shapton is a very good stone, and cuts fast.

Originally Posted by silver2k

So the glass stones need to be lapped? I thought the honing surface was just the surface texture on the glass. But if they are to be lapped that would destroy it. So out goes my theory.

If these hones actually maintain their abrasiveness through a certain depth that makes these very attractive options for finishing hones.

No, their website is pretty confusing on that point, which is why I didn't buy the glassstones when I first went looking (I thought you had to use the $$$ diamond lapping plate on them). The glassstones are simply 5mm of abrasive on a tempered glass substrate. They still need lapping, just not very often because they're so hard and so fast.

Originally Posted by Kees

Arre they really? A single grit Norton at Classic Shaving is more expensive than a single grit Shapton. Of course double sided Nortons are cheaper than 2 Shaptons but if Shaptons are so much faster: wouldn't a single grit Shapton do?

No, you still need the separate grits, otherwise you'll wear out your expensive hone.

One of the things that makes the Shapton system work is their speed and the efficient steps in the grits. Once you get the bevel set you should never need more than 5 or 6 laps on any given stone before moving up to the next one, and 2-3 may be more typical (I'm pretty sure I should have stopped after 2 laps on the 8k, but I did one more "for good measure" and then wound up having to correct this with that short pyramid).

For any newbies reading this thread: because of their speed and cost I really can't recommend them to someone just starting out - it's waaaaay to easy to overshoot the edge with these things. Speaking from experience you really don't want to have to go over the hone with a microscope and tweezers picking out bits of wire edge that have broken off and embedded in the hone. Not more than once, anyway.

Originally Posted by mhailey

I have the 8k shapton, (and an Arkansas surgical stone which I don't use)and that is all. I get a nice keen edge on my razor, but it has not passed the hanging hair test, probably because I have only been honing for about 2 months, and still learning the tricks of the trade.

Do you do the HHT before or after stropping? You'll get better (more indicative) results if you strop before trying the HHT.

The 8k Shapton is probably the most useful stone in their lineup - AFAICT it produces an edge roughly comparable to the coticule but in a fraction of the time. Following this with a few laps on chrome oxide will give you a really good, smooth-shaving edge.

Originally Posted by Kees

I was looking for coarser grits e.g. 1K and 4K. Is there a risk of overhoning in that grit range?

Sure. But overhoning has no real effect on the final shaving edge until you get to the polishing grits - the sandpaper that is so popular at those low grits produces an impressive wire edge, but it snaps off once you get to the 4k and then you finish the bevel and it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Kees

And why, if they are so much faster, do many of us still use the Norton? Is it force of habit or our conservative character? On one of the knife forums someone commented once that straight razor users are considered to be very conservative and traditionalist

AFAIK, the norton was "discovered" by the straight razor community long before the shaptons were discovered. There was very little discussion of them on SRP before Joe Lerch and I bought ours (Joe got a 16k glassstone, I got a 15k pro stone). Before the glassstones came around a Shapton was twice the price of the Norton combo *per stone*. The norton is also available at classic and the other straight razor stores, and is much easier to learn on. I wouldn't really recommend a shapton to someone just starting out because of these factors, a norton, barber hone, or coticule will be much easier to learn on because the edge spends more laps near the peak, and the lower cost means a much less of a monetary barrier to entry. Plus the norton allows a one-stop-shopping experience at the various on-line merchants.