Thread: Wide vs Thin hones..

So to start I have this dovo that used to be a 6/8. Through repeated honing for practice it's gotten considerably smaller.. don't really care as its a tool. Tools wear if you're hard on them.. What's a $150 to learn... I pay way more then that for tuition... learning eh... gotta love it.

On to the main event. I've been on hiatus with my straights for a few days now. A few days ago i recieved my Norton 4/8k lapped the 4k until all the grain was gone.. good to go on the hone..
Brought out my king 1k. Good to go.

Set the bevel on 1k, a 2 1/2" one. I went through all the tests the whole 9. Tried to jump to 4k and it's as if the bevel was gone no TNT and no arm hair shaving anymore.. wtf I thought.. went back down to 1k bevel set again.. I've set enough bevels to understand what that means and feels like. I've gotten past the super rook stage of my honing.. so

I went to 4k again, then 8k nope not cutting. Went down to 4k nope back to 1k. Good... well a few hours later after going up and down in grit I found myself standing over the garbage can my Dovo in one hand and my Norton in the other... ready to list my whole collection of hones razors and strops on ebay and pick up a de..

I finally walked away after putting significant wear on the razor.. I've honed this razor many times on a thinner stone (2") roughly.. coticule... it hones up great but this wide norton wasn't speaking to me.

Finally today I picked it back up.. where I had left it I had the bevel set on the 1k. Picked up my favoured coti/bbw from geezer. A almost 8 inch by 1.75-2". Honed slurry on coti -> bbw with slurry -> coticule with water. Passing all my tests. The shave test will take place tonight..

Just wondering of width of a stone has anything to do with it?

Is it all in my head? and I'm far more proficient and a better honer with my coticule only since I've been at that method for over a year.

Weigh in please gentlemen,

It was truly low point I'm my life.. I never want to be there again. It wavered my faith in straight razors as a whole.

Scott

You say you lapped the 4k til the grain was gone...safe to assume you did the same for the 8k side? Food for thought, in one of Lynn's videos on prepping the 4k/8k he advises lapping a solid chunk off the 4k before you're at useful material, 1/8" if I remember right. In my experience once the bevel is set the 4K and 8K require no pressure and minimal laps. I would wager 40 tops on the 4k, and I don't think I've needed more than 15 on the 8k now that I figured that SOB out.

I doubt the width of the stone has anything to do with the problem. If anything I would think the extra inch on the Norton hone would be helpful since you can get the full blade on that thing. In my experience I have more trouble with my B.hones since they're both thinner and shorter than all my other hones, but I could just be spoiled by 8"x3" stones.

Wide hones are no different that narrow hones except in the way you *might* use them.

A narrow hone forces you to use a rolling X stroke to get the whole edge sharp. This is not a problem for *any* razor.

A wide hone allows you to hone up and down the stone without rolling... not a problem for straight edges, but if you have a smile in the razor, you need to deliberately use rolling strokes on wide hones to make sure the whole edge gets sharp.

I really can't see a reason why the razor would get dull on the Norton... the rough edge on the 1K will catch hair easier, but once you hone out all those 1K scratches with the 4K, it should start popping hairs again.

Grab your trusty felt pen and colour the bevel when you go from the 1K to the Norton, that will quickly tell you what's going on.

Regards

Christian

You should have walked away sooner when you were getting stuck. If you were contemplating the trash can, then you were way past the point of frustration at which you should have stopped.

If you truly consider that the hone width is an issue, then take a pencil and draw a line down its lengthwise middle. Now do your honing on your newly minted narrow hone, pretending that there is nothing past the line. Modify your stroke to maintain blade contact on your narrow hone and be sure to watch the water being pushed on your narrow hone.

Originally Posted by Utopian

You should have walked away sooner when you were getting stuck. If you were contemplating the trash can, then you were way past the point of frustration at which you should have stopped.

If you truly consider that the hone width is an issue, then take a pencil and draw a line down its lengthwise middle. Now do your honing on your newly minted narrow hone, pretending that there is nothing past the line. Modify your stroke to maintain blade contact on your narrow hone and be sure to watch the water being pushed on your narrow hone.

+1 on the walking away sooner, I have had to do it many times regarding honing (and knife sharpening)!! I think you just got so frustrated that it wouldn't have mattered what stone you were using...
I have tried many different stones and found that I personally do better with the wider stones. Don't give up, you will get there

The difference between wide and narrow hones in my eyes: Its easier to hone a warped blade on a narrow hone. The only real advantage I can think of and it aint much.

The stone width had very little to do with it.

As said the 4/8 k may not have been lapped enough. And as with most any new stone, you have to learn the stone. It could very well have been a pressure issue, too much or to little, especially coming from a natural.

But more importantly the bevel was probably, not fully set.

Chances are you did all the heavy lifting on the synthetics and finished re setting the edge and polished the bevel on the coticule.

So put it back on the 8k, now that you know you have an edge and see what happens, the edge should be about the same. Magnification will tell you.

You just have to learn this stone.

Originally Posted by Utopian

You should have walked away sooner when you were getting stuck. If you were contemplating the trash can, then you were way past the point of frustration at which you should have stopped.

That is probably the best advice given, right there. Sometimes the stars are not aligned for you (and it's not YOU, it's the same for pretty much everyone). If things are not working as you know they should, put it down, take a deep breath and go do something else. When you come back to it with fresh eyes and hands, the situation usually looks different.