Thread: what does a coticule edge feel like

I've had tuggy shaves from a certain coticule, smooth but not sharp enough for me; but I've also had tugless shaves from another coticule, also smooth and sharp enough; both left me skin feeling smooth, skin friendly.

Because it doesn't feel as sharp as a thuringen edge, I find myself paying more attention to shaving technique and beard prep, but that's just me. (Which is not a bad thing)

It all depends, but there's a lot of experimenting with these stones, there's a lot of variety; I just finished a razor on a coticule with lather wheres with water my edges were OK, but not good enough for my liking, so I'll see how that goes.

Different veins get different results, I think, many say the results are negligible and that most coti's leave somewhat of the same sort of edge; I do seem to prefer some veins over the other.

Trial and error it has mostly been, and I most likely haven't fully conquered the art of honing on a Coticule.
But when you get it right, it's a wonderful thing, I haven't always completely appreciated, but I'm starting to now.

I also have read and have experienced that when I'm finishing on a Coticule it needs a good stropping session, this should give excellent results.

Maybe a little off topic, but my best shave I ever had was a razor finished on a BBW with just water, but one of my least pleasant shaves were also coming off a BBW, so hmm yeah.

Dull. But in a nice way. Mushy, buttery, some call it smooth?? I find them the kindest to my skin but yet to find a coti that you do not feel some resistance especially ATG. You love em or hate em.Personally I think there is to much debate about keenness. Granted the high grit synthetics are bullet proof and cotis are not easy stones to use. At the end of the day a razor only needs to be keen enough to cut hair. This may not be the most pleasant shaving experience, but I have had some of my closest shaves from these edges with enough passes. Very, very forgiving edge to the skin and you can really get stuck in with a bit of pressure.
I shaved yesterday with a razor honed on a Gokumyo 20000 and to be honest the shave was excellent (cruised through whiskers just razor weight) but felt that if my touch was anything but light as a feather I would have grafted some face skin. And to be honest the result was not very much better if at all. Just my 2 cents

Joe

I'm told the more recent Coticules are inferior to the older ones and even those came in grades so it depends whether you have an OK one or a good one or a very good one or an excellent one.

The one I have is probably about 15 years old and when I got it that Coticule was my best stone and I used it as a finisher and I got great edges from it. Of course when I got my Escher the edges were better but the Coticule was darn good for shaving.

I find my zulu yields a keener smoother edge than my La Veinette (slightly). Where the coticule really comes into its own is when backing off a really keen or even harsh edge honed by other means. Between 5 to 20 laps usually does the trick. Nothing dials in smoothness without losing much keenness like a coticule IMHO.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I'm told the more recent Coticules are inferior to the older ones and even those came in grades so it depends whether you have an OK one or a good one or a very good one or an excellent one.

The one I have is probably about 15 years old and when I got it that Coticule was my best stone and I used it as a finisher and I got great edges from it. Of course when I got my Escher the edges were better but the Coticule was darn good for shaving.

Given that they are all in excess of 70 million years old - or 700 hundred million depending on which book you read, the fact that you can discern a difference in 15 years is incredible.

Originally Posted by UKRob

Given that they are all in excess of 70 million years old - or 700 hundred million depending on which book you read, the fact that you can discern a difference in 15 years is incredible.

Regardless of how old the stones are, the question is whether the quality of the material in the veins of coticule declines as the mine is depleted. The good stuff being long since harvested.

In the 1970s I used to read that sort of thing in articles in knife & gun magazines referring to Arkansas stones, saying they were 'mined out.' Matter of fact there was a new run of Lilly White Washita stones by Norton Abrasives some 7 or 8 years ago. Guys on forums who had used the vintage Lilly Whites claimed they weren't as good.

OTOH, I suppose it could be argued that the quality might improve as you got to the end of the usefulness of the mine.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Regardless of how old the stones are, the question is whether the quality of the material in the veins of coticule declines as the mine is depleted. The good stuff being long since harvested.

In the 1970s I used to read that sort of thing in articles in knife & gun magazines referring to Arkansas stones, saying they were 'mined out.' Matter of fact there was a new run of Lilly White Washita stones by Norton Abrasives some 7 or 8 years ago. Guys on forums who had used the vintage Lilly Whites claimed they weren't as good.

OTOH, I suppose it could be argued that the quality might improve as you got to the end of the usefulness of the mine.

When I read this the thing that sticks out the most is "usefulness". And a close second is that the vintage ones were better.

Mines or quarries are run as a business. I have read many times that they know that there is a higher quality material deeper etc. but it is to costly to get and you make more money with the easier to obtain lesser quality ore etc.

We remember the best things of the past and tend to ignore the problems. It is human nature.......

Not to mention the Romans that 'took' a lot of good Coticule stones, muahaha

Anyways, I'm honing a couple of razors (2) on different coticules atm, and I will hone those two razors solely on 4 to 5 different coticules to see what their differences are.
3 of those Cotis are cotis that were sold a while ago, so I'll call those vintage cotis (no idea of the veins, probably veinettes and a la grise). 2 others are modern bought la veinettes. These rocks all date back to the same period millions of years ago so they're really all vintage. I wonder what difference it will make.
All of these coti's are natural combos, except for one of the modern ones.
Since I've been mainly only using Thuringen stones in the past; I find for daily shaving I might benefit from something a little less sharp and smoother

A little off topic; I prefer to hone on narrower hones and not too long either, I'm not saying it's cheap, but when I compare the prices to the big cotis that are being sold, I'm glad I have this preference.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I'm told the more recent Coticules are inferior to the older ones and even those came in grades so it depends whether you have an OK one or a good one or a very good one or an excellent one.

The one I have is probably about 15 years old and when I got it that Coticule was my best stone and I used it as a finisher and I got great edges from it. Of course when I got my Escher the edges were better but the Coticule was darn good for shaving.

I'll preface my statements by saying that I haven't tried one of the more recent coticules from the "new" mine, and I won't because of similar statements that I've been told ... and by people who know. As far as being only fifteen years or so different in age, I cannot answer that, but I do know that many different layers, with many different attributes came out of the Old Preu mine. I've got two La Veinnettes from the old mine, about ten years ago, that will rival the edge of any other stone, of any ilk, that I've got here. But these are all natural stones. I've got Old Rock, Deep Rock, Salm, Oozuko, Shoubudani, Nakayama, Escher, SRD... These two LV's will hold their own with any of them.

I've yet to hear of anything great from the new location .. That does not mean there won't be, but I'm standing pat!

Edit... I'm itching to try a Gokumyo 20K edge though...

Originally Posted by Druid

I'll preface my statements by saying that I haven't tried one of the more recent coticules from the "new" mine, and I won't because of similar statements that I've been told ... and by people who know. As far as being only fifteen years or so different in age, I cannot answer that, but I do know that many different layers, with many different attributes came out of the Old Preu mine. I've got two La Veinnettes from the old mine, about ten years ago, that will rival the edge of any other stone, of any ilk, that I've got here. But these are all natural stones. I've got Old Rock, Deep Rock, Salm, Oozuko, Shoubudani, Nakayama, Escher, SRD... These two LV's will hold their own with any of them.

I've yet to hear of anything great from the new location .. That does not mean there won't be, but I'm standing pat!

Edit... I'm itching to try a Gokumyo 20K edge though...

My G20K stone should arrive any day now. I would be glad to hone a razor for you, if you wish to send me one?

Joe