Thread: At a loss.

I decided to make my life easier by narrowing things down to a single razor, my norton 4k, 8k, and a barber hone, and an un-pasted strop. I touched up my Dovo last night on those exact hones. I got to the Swaty, used it with lather and it felt a little gravelly (it's not a finisher, I know.) But when looking straight down at the edge I saw no shiny spots, and there was almost no stria left that I could see under a 60x loupe. Arm hair practically jumped off before the blade hit it. Needless to say I was really looking forward to shaving with it.

So, this morning I strop it up on linen and leather then try it out. And the razor is dull. As in tugs worse than it did before I touched it up. At this point I'm thinking either the Swaty is no good due to it's feedback, or I screwed up stropping the blade. No big deal, I changed razors and finished up (poorly because now I was pressed for time).

When I get home and decide to troubleshoot. Under a 60x loupe it's obvious the bevel is not meeting. When I put the blade down yesterday I couldn't see the bevel looking straight down at it. Well, I took the same barber hone dry and touched it up. If that was the problem then it shouldn't shave after being touched up right? Right. Again I made sure the bevel is invisible.

I take the blade of the strop, and this time I took my magnifying lens with me. First I did a 20 laps on linen and checked it. Everything was ok. I did 40 on leather, same thing. Instead of shaving with it, I hit the edge with 12 laps on CrOx just to see what it would look like under the loupe. Then I did 10 more. Nothing suspicious but man was that thing shiny. Then I took it back to the barber hone for 5 laps to get rid of whatever the CrOx did to the edge.

At this point it was time to experiment, so I blacked the edge with a sharpie and played on the linen. first off I wanted to be sure I was contacting the edge of the blade. Some spots stayed black in the center of the bevel, but it got all along the very edge where the work is done. I tried high strop tension with heavy pressure, loose strop with no pressure, and everything between. I stropped slow and steady, and I stropped fast. For the life of me I could not produce the same wear I saw before tonight's touch up. Not with linen. Not with leather. Not even with shaving.

So after giving the edge h*** with the strop, I lathered up and shaved since it looked like I hadn't in days anyway. No more tugging, pulling, or discomfort. And the edge looked the same after the shave - and post shave stropping - as it did yesterday when I laid it down for the night after the touch up. In my mind this eliminates the hone as the source of the issue, and the strop/stropping technique as well. I mean I tried for several hundred laps to screw this edge up and couldn't do it.

So if neither hone, honing technique, nor strop/stropping technique are to blame, what the devil happened in less than 24 hours to mess up the edge of this razor? It boggles my mind. Humidity/rust? I don't see any signs of that on edges I haven't touched in weeks, and they're all housed in the same location. It has to be gremlins. Yep, that's it. I'm going with gremlins.

One thing to check (and you probably already have) is to see if there is a frown. Marker test with the center still black is an indicator of a frown especially if it's both sides. You can hone a frown for days without progress

Well, if it has one it isn't visible to the naked eye. At least not without a straight edge to put it against. If anything it should* be forming a smile since I use a sweeping X stroke for just about everything. I might bring home the calipers from work and get a few measurements tomorrow.

My only problem with that is it doesn't explain the edge degradation that was present along the entire length of the blade. Still worth looking into I suppose, better to fix these things while they're in their infancy.

Hold it edge down on a lapped hone and hold it up to light. If there is light showing through you have a frown. The degradation could be from over honing dealing with a frown

I have one thought. You may have done it, and because most consider it to be a given, didn't think to type it into the steps you did before putting the razor away the first night. But I'll ask anyway... cause I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions! Did you strop it after the gravel swatty??

It's the best way to dry an edge without risking harm to it. If you put her away wet (or at least not dry), that might explain why the edge had gone sour overnight.

Just thinking out loud.

Originally Posted by rodb

Hold it edge down on a lapped hone and hold it up to light. If there is light showing through you have a frown. The degradation could be from over honing dealing with a frown

I actually did just that before I replied earlier. Let's just say I've got a feeling I'll be breadknifing it in the not too distant future, but I'm still holding out hope it's the fairly new and recently lapped Norton 8K that's not perfectly straight.

Originally Posted by Crawler

I have one thought. You may have done it, and because most consider it to be a given, didn't think to type it into the steps you did before putting the razor away the first night. But I'll ask anyway... cause I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions! Did you strop it after the gravel swatty??

It's the best way to dry an edge without risking harm to it. If you put her away wet (or at least not dry), that might explain why the edge had gone sour overnight.

Just thinking out loud.

I didn't strop it, but I always wipe them down several times with a new paper towel or piece of toilet paper. Perhaps it's time to amend that practice and take them to the strop before putting them away.

Don't breadknife, hold the edge at about a 45 degree angle and do 1/2 x-strokes (sets of 10-20/side) until the frown goes away. Then do some more 1/2 x-strokes at about 15 degrees, then start setting the bevel. It's much less work than breadknifing the edge

I think I like that idea a little bit better. It really isn't off enough to warrant bread knifing. You could barely fit a piece of paper between the belly and the hone.

That way you take the high spots down and you still have a bevel instead of a flat piece of steel that needs a complete bevel reset. It saves on metal as you won't remove as much. You can use the same method on small chips

Originally Posted by Marshal

I think I like that idea a little bit better. It really isn't off enough to warrant bread knifing. You could barely fit a piece of paper between the belly and the hone.

High angle honing or bread-knifing, does not matter, you remove exactly the same amount of metal, the bottom of the lowest point, belly or chip.

Bread-knifing gets you a perfectly straight edge, a few high angle, 45 degree laps knocks off the corners and brings the bevels to meeting or near meeting quickly. Then just hone as normal.

The difference is you are honing to a straight edge as opposed to honing a straight edge, by grinding the bevels to a straight edge. If the goal is to straighten the edge, straighten the edge, first.

Either way works, and you remove the same amount of material in about the same amount of time. Personally, Bread-knifing is quicker and the edge straighter.

The bevel was not fully set or you rolled the edge stropping.

Sounds like your barber hone is not a finisher, hone a razor on the 8k, and then hone the toe half, with the barber hone and compare the stria to the 8k.

Chances are the barber hone is not finer than 8K.