Thread: am ruining my blade

Gentlemen,

Am new at honing, trying to sharpen a Heljestrand SE blade on a coticule. The more I try the worst I make it so decided it was time to stop and ask for your advise. The problem is, as you can hopefully see, an asymmetric bevel, starting huge at the right side and the ends in near to no bevel on the left side.

How I made all this damage:
1. Started with tape and using index and thumb fingers on each side of the blade and at the spine and on top of the blade near the spine respectively; fingers touching.
Same asymmetric bevel so:
2. Pushed a little harder on the non-bevel side with no results.
3. Took of the tape to see if that was interfering and made no progress on the bevel side and created quite a bit of spine wear.
4. Went back to tape now only with right hand fingers to the middle of the blade and using very little pressure. In my mind I was imagining I did not have the asymmetric bevel problem to see if my attempts to fix it I was aggravating the problem. No progress. Asymmetry increasing.

The stone is new and was described as a having a "glassy feed back", came lapped and comes from what I-ve read is considered a reputable vendor. I lapped between most steps using a 1k cheapo norton kitchen knife stone. I raised slurry with a slurry stone whenever I restarted (many times).

Chances are this is purely the user's fault, and I hate to put blame on tools but the one possibility I was thinking of is that the glassy part of the stone seems to be concentrated on the upper left corned of the stone and extends to the middle up. Because I saw this as a possibility I made sure to rotate the stone frequently. Also alternated rotating the blade in case I was non-intendedly putting more pressure on one side than the other.

Thanks in advance for your advise, apologies for the long post and painful redaction.

Attachment 236350

How was this meant to be sharpened in the first place? Is it anything like a Rolls razor?

Do you have the blade holder? That might set the proper angle

Wedge blades are tricky and I am no expert but have sharpened a few. Using the blade holder is fairly critical. It is near impossible without one. The thing I do is to keep my X stroke quite straight, trying to avoid any smiling or frowning. I also flip my blade, end to end regularly. It is difficult to keep the blade pressure nice and even on such a tiny blade. If this is your start into honing you have picked a difficult challenge. I would not set a bevel on a coticule as it is a difficult hone to learn. I would either a) send it out to Gssixgun, Modine, or because you are likely close Geezer. Geezer's given name is Richard, and he has a lot of experience with these, as do the other two, but all things being equal he is closest. After you have them sharpened they should be easy to maintain. Plan b) to use a 1K to set the bevels and then progress to a 4K and then to the coticule. Plan c) would be 1K then coticule. I have little experience with a coticule but they have a reputation for being very slow bevel setters

Hmmmmm

Ok without the Honing guide this going to get tricky..

Have you ever honed a knife ?? to find the previous honing angle of a knife you set it on the honing stone and raise the spine until the edge touches down on the stone.. You are going to have to use that same approach to get an idea of what the honing guide did in the past, unfortunately you may have messed up this test with all the honing..

I have actually used a Popsicle stick as a honing guide for these in the past when facing a missing guide, I am not saying that your needs that it is just an idea I came up with that worked in the past..
Another idea is to slit the end of a Bic Pen tube to hold the blade, again you have to determine the correct bevel angle that your blade needs before using these ideas..

Good Luck


ps: If you are creating a worse bevel on the edge STOP honing you are doing something wrong

Thanks for your advise.
I do have a bayonet thingy but decided not to use it because: a) I thought the weight of the handle would make laying the blade flat on the stone more difficult, and b) the only guidance I've received on the how abouts of honing these blades were pics and that is how they were doing it so I thought it was better. They are using lapping film most of times so yes I took a different road.
If I understand correctly, what I should do is try to find the honing angle and see if the bayonet matches that angle. Hopefully it will and so then I would tape the bayonet (handle or no handle?) and go slow on bevel setting to see if it works.
Thanks for your advise and patience.

Yes I would recommend using 1 layer of tape, at least until you figure out what is going on..

Also you might try the MM (Magic Marker) test and see what kind of actual contact is happening before you attempt any more correction

Many thanks Glen.
This is how it looked after 20 strokes per side on slurry.

This after some more laps.

I know my pics are not tremendously helpful. To my eyes it is looking better. Now it has a bevel top to bottom. It is not even and the side with a bigger bevel definitely pulls towards the stone much harder (if that makes sense) and under magnification the edge looks rougher than the middle. The marks left on tape at the spine are also more even.
Am very happy that the stone is fine!
The blade isn't sharp at all, but my hopes are definitely higher than before.
Further guidance will be very much appreciated.

That actually looks much more even then before,,

What are you doing different ??? something seems to be working

It also could be that the MM test is simply helping you visualize the correct stroke


You might try just a little push of pressure on the uneven parts and see if that doesn't help just a touch also

Look at that, confirmed progress. Thanks!
I believe using the guide made a significant difference on it own. No idea why or how.
Also lowered pressure considerably. I think I was getting different feedbacks from the stone because I was using too much pressure. With less pressure I now can only hear it when slurry is more diluted.
I've been putting my finger on top of the areas with smaller bevel (probably not the right term) and am getting the impression that putting it on the side of the blade, closer to the bevel, works better than on the spine. MM certainly helps since I get feedback more quickly.
So, is the goal to get to a perfectly even bevel?

Originally Posted by lloydrm

Look at that, confirmed progress. Thanks!
I believe using the guide made a significant difference on it own. No idea why or how.
Also lowered pressure considerably. I think I was getting different feedbacks from the stone because I was using too much pressure. With less pressure I now can only hear it when slurry is more diluted.
I've been putting my finger on top of the areas with smaller bevel (probably not the right term) and am getting the impression that putting it on the side of the blade, closer to the bevel, works better than on the spine. MM certainly helps since I get feedback more quickly.
So, is the goal to get to a perfectly even bevel?

I think the goal is to set the bevel and polish the edge without the blade becoming crooked. If the grind is perfect and it is honed straight the bevel will be even. The grind is likely quite straight, so the bevel should be straight too. I guess what I am trying to say is the bevel should be fairly even but do not be obsessive about how even it is. Get the bevel set while removing as little steel as possible. Those wedge style safety razors shave very very well, almost exactly like a straight.