Thread: crash course in japanese stones

Since shapton make a number of models of equal grit you can find them at a range of prices. Maybe you'd be best buying one which is slightly slower and cheaper like the m5 in your pics as you'd probably never get through a pro series.
I seem to recall something about a thinner series but it may be from another maker.
Shapton now market a 15k one in the west and I think this replaces the 12k.

Hi Eric,

I have the 12k shapton in your first picture. Is is from the professional series here. The M5 (in the second pic) is standard and about half the price here in Japan as the first one.

The 12k pro seems to cut fast for a 12k but I am still trying to confirm if it can give a good final polish or not (still trying to get my SS Dovo to pass the hanging hair test, or even to give a good smooth shave, but I think it is me and not the stone that is the problem )

well i did a lot of reading looking for 12k grit stones, this is basically what i found:

shapton makes the 12k stone in japan and the 15k in the west. shapton color codes there stones (both cases and stone) which leads some ppl to think that the 12k japanese stone is the same as the 15k western stone, since they have the same colours but thats total speculation

The Shapton model M5 is 8¼" x 2¾" x ¾". However, only 1/4" is abrasive material. The other ½" is a ceramic supporting material which is laminated to the #12000 grit material.

The Shapton model M15 the same as the M5 but is a solid 8-1/4" x 2-3/4" x 5/8" #12000 grit abrasive laminated to a wooden base with rubber feet to give a non-slip working surface.

This were said to be a good economical substitute for Honyama Awase stones.

The difference between the Professional and M15 series is that the professional series stones have 30% more particles by volume than the M series.

I read about the shapton stones that it is easy to contaminate with coarser grits which scratches the surface (especially if you try to lap it). Another person said "The Shapton M15 also rates very highly (and will form a slurry, unlike the Shapton pro stones)... The M15 series acts more like a traditional waterstone and is different from their professional stones. As for the 12k Shapton M5 stone... it is cheap, but is just a thin layer of pro-stone abrasive on a ceramic substrate (It has a slightly lower concentration of abrasives than the pro stone so will cut slightly slower than the pro line and the surface will craze, but the M5 series are okay for light use, and, since they work and feel like the pro stones, they are an economical way to see what the pro stones are like before actually buying a set of the more expensive pro/kuromaku stones"

There is also the Kitayama which is actually an 8000 grit stone which has a practical performance of around 12000, and as such is often listed as a 12000 "The Kitayama is an 8k stone with some ground up natural stone in it, so it tends to feel more like a natural stone and will form a slurry that will crush to about 12k between the knife and the stone, so for best results, you have to work the mud"
http://japanwoodworker.com/product.a...&dept_id=13118

It's not quite 12000, but ppl seem to like the Naniwa 10000 stone
http://japanwoodworker.com/product.a...&dept_id=13118

Again, not quite 12000, but ppl seem to like the Ice Bear 10000 stone, and it's quite reasonably priced
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/M...egory_Code=THW
or
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/i...OD&ProdID=5530

i think as far as ease of attaining and price goes, the lower end shaptons may be my best choice, they may even be improved with the use of a nagura?

Can anyone tell me anything about these stones?

Mined near Kyoto, these stones are Honyama brand, highly respected for quality. They are natural Japanese finishing water stones. Honyama stones are appropriate for Japanese chisels in the Rc62 range and all Western-style chisels and plane blades.

This stone is 6-7/8" x 2-1/2" x 3/4"
Top - http://www.geocities.com/eric_kluk/99w3415v1.jpg
Bottom - http://www.geocities.com/eric_kluk/99w3415v2.jpg

This stone is 6" x 2-1/8" x 11/16"
Top - http://www.geocities.com/eric_kluk/99w3416v1.jpg
Bottom - http://www.geocities.com/eric_kluk/99w3416v2.jpg

This is all I know about these stones. I have no idea what grit they are.
Seems like Honyama is known for Awase stones that are in the 8k git range? Could these be Awase stones?

Can anyone read the markings on the stones? Can anyone tell me what the heck they are?

these stones look very similar to the ones on Master Takedas site under Ohira:
http://shop.niimi.okayama.jp/kajiya/en/index_e.html

If it's a proper honyama it would probably be from shobou or nakayama iirc but the name is now used as a general term as well. The back is similar to some I've seen from the above but I don't recall the kanji being the same. If I had to guess I'd have gone for one of the less well known mines but I really couldn't say.
Yellow ones are often considered to be very good.

and a kanji is what? is either of these yellow?

I think they would both be classed as yellow ( which is called something like kita iirc.) The first one is more like the yellow ones I've seen from one of the above mines I think. The blue/grey ones are also supposed to be good.

Kanji are the characters used in Chinese and Japanese writing. Well one kind as they have different types of writing like katakana for foreign words or to sort of spell something out or make certain people can read it. Not forgetting other kana like hirigana etc. I really don't know how anyone manages to learn the language!

This is all just little bits and pieces I've picked up here and there as there doesn't seem to be any books available on the subject so it's all a bit difficult for us to get to grips with the subject. In other words take it all with a little pinch of salt as I'm not 100% sure of the facts.