Thread: Can't keep an edge

Tom - I bought a shallow cookie pan for my water hones. They get soaked about 10 to 15 minutes before use, I set them up on one of the Norton boxes in the cookie pan so the edge of the pan isn't in the way. I keep a spray bottle of water handy for when the hones dry out.

Usually I'll toss the hone(s) I want to use in a bucket, and by the time my honing station is setup they're ready to roll. The hard part for me is leaving them out to dry up after use.

Thanks Marshall. I really appreciate your response. I just soaked my Norton. It is a two sided stone 1000/2000. . I am curious about taping the spine. I am using a 10x loop and the edge looks rough. I have gone about 60 laps and there appears to be little change. Can you advise about how much I should do. Currently I can draw the blade across my thumb pad with no cutting. In the past I just kept going and going and going. I don't know if you can do too much. How do you know you are over honing a blade?

You cannot hone by formula, especially when bevel setting. You will have to use however many laps are necessary to join the two bevels into an edge. With some razors, this may be a few dozen; with others it can be hundreds. Do not worry about over honing - getting the bevels to meet is your first priority. Once they are joined, there will be no shadows or reflections at the very edge and it should shave arm hair easily.

SQZBRX: You have an interesting point. How I have managed all these years I don't know. I guess I have been lucky. Now, how can you tell that you have achieved a bevel on the blade. I have been working the dickens out of a Joseph Allen. Spent about two hours today on a Norton 1000 grit water stone. Far more than 100 laps and I can still stroke it down my thumb pad and not slice skin. Shaving arm hair? All it does is push the hair down. I am getting close to pitching the damned thing.

Originally Posted by Glock27

Thanks Marshall. I really appreciate your response. I just soaked my Norton. It is a two sided stone 1000/2000. . I am curious about taping the spine. I am using a 10x loop and the edge looks rough. I have gone about 60 laps and there appears to be little change. Can you advise about how much I should do. Currently I can draw the blade across my thumb pad with no cutting. In the past I just kept going and going and going. I don't know if you can do too much. How do you know you are over honing a blade?

Your best bet is to use a sharpie on the bevel. Some recommend putting the edge on the felt and running it across the blade. I don't mind getting sharpie everywhere, so I start about 1/16" to 1/8" beyond the bevel on the blade and run the sharpie out. It's slower, so you have to make 50 or so 'dashes' perpendicular to the bevel, but it will cover the whole bevel. I recommend a red or green. Seems to be easier on the eyes than black, especially with a 10x loupe. From there, do 2-3 passes on the stone. Then look at what sharpie is left, that will indicate where you are missing and will have to adjust your stroke to cover the whole edge. At 1000/2000, you won't really "over-hone" but remove more steel than necessary, which is pretty inevitable while learning or changing old habit. To save metal and make it easier, you can use only the 2000 side for bevel setting. It will take longer, but it will work. Always, always, always end each stone with light pressure.

I wouldn't worry about actually testing the bevel until the edge of the razor has the roughness removed and is completely even. At that point, I would test on various limb hair and look for reflections. I use a 60x loupe and check my bevel from every single possible angle to see anything out of place. However, that is overkill. A 30x-40x loupe can be reasonably purchased from various places under 5 bucks.

A mention on pressure. I use very light pressure on everything and purposefully work slowly, constantly checking with my loupe every 10-15 strokes. I will spend at least 45 minutes on each stone (after the bevel is set). I have done it faster, but this isn't a race and it isn't (well, some of us) our job. Rushing our honing (unless you've honed hundreds or thousands, even then maybe not) is only going to make twice as much work. Slow down, grab a cold beverage of choice and work each stone until it can improve your edge no more.

Tom - like they said, it take what it takes. Usually I'll do a set amount of strokes, somewhere between 20 and 40, then check to see if the edge is suitable. How many passes between checks depends on how dull the blade is.

You mentioned that you like your Arkansas stones. There are things you can do to speed them up. Have you seen this thread?

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...lurry-ark.html

A small piece of coticule for the experiment costs about 15 bucks from Straight Razor Designs, I just got one myself to experiment with. You can also rough up your soft Arkie with a Diamond hone around 300 to 400 grit, maybe the same for the hard but around 1000. Just to keep them cutting quick and unburnished. Solitary Soldier left a nice video in his thread detailing the method. It sounds like you've got the hones, just need a little practice and patience, and maybe higher magnification. I like 60x so I can see what's going on at the very edge.

I don't think I've ever Ober honed anything. But I've definitely under-honed an edge. I think that problem is more common than over honing.

Thanks dinnermint. I appreciate your in-put. I will give this a try. I am getting weary grinding, so weary. I have been lucky in the past that the razors I got seemed to be in good shape and have been able to maintain even at my level of ignorance.

As suggested, mark both sides of the bevel with a permanent marker then take a normal honing lap and check under magnification with good light. It will become very clear when the bevels are meeting and you will most definitely not be able to stroke it on your thumb without medical attention. Regarding your Norton 1k, try lapping it to refresh the surface - I had to do that every hundred laps or so when I was using one. Also, if you are using tape, be sure to change it when it starts to show wear. As it erodes, it effectively reduces the angle on the hone and causes the very edge to lift. Fresh tape or no tape will keep you honing at the edge.

Tom, you can do a full progression on Arks, (typically a Washita, Hard Ark and Translucent or Surgical Black), but if you have a Norton 1k, use it to set the bevel.

Put 2 layers of electrical tape on the spine and Ink the bevel with a sharpie as said.

Lap your Norton with your medium grit Diamond plate, make sure to bevel the edges.

Do one lap on the 1k and look at the bevel. See if you are honing, (removing ink) all the way to the edge. Then hone the razor in a series of 10 circles on each side, until you are able to hone the complete bevel to the edge.

Keep applying ink as you continue to do circles, once you can remove all the ink in a set of 10 circles, ink the bevels again and now do X strokes to even out the bevels and lay down an even stria pattern.

If you have a hard Ark, you can now move to the hard ark, once you have an even stria pattern and flat bevel.

Stay on the hard ark until all the 1k stria is removed, then move to a Translucent or Surgical Black Hard Ark to finish. Finishing will take 200 or more laps.

If you would like, send me your razors, or at least a couple. I will hone them and send them back as soon as possible. You can then maintain them on your Arks. It will cost you about 6 buck to send one razor or 12 to send 2-3, from the Post Office and they give you the box. PM me if you are interested.

Thank you for the offer. I will certainly consider it. First I need to make the effort on my own. I really don't have a lot of time. Currently I have seven that are well sharpened. Some times I get lucky, especially if the razor I get is already in good condition, It is just the Joseph Allen I have and a couple of others like the Electric Co. The JA I recently bought, the Electric Co. I have had for years. I had given up on it and recently brought it out along with a few more I never did anything with. Note. The JA was not in the best of condition. Again, thanks for the offer. I will paste your note to keep on hand if I need to get in touch with you for the offer. Again thanks.