Thread: Assistance requested please

Greetings!

I've been wet shaving now for about 8 months. When I started, I purchased a feather razor with professional blades. As you may know, the first shave or two with a feather pro is a bit harsh, then the next 5-8 shaves or so are much more comfortable before I find I need to replace the blade. Let's just say the feather professional blade is my benchmark for comfort.

I've purchased a number of straights since, and have honed them on my own. I use a 1k king to set the bevel, and a Norton 4/8 to hone to the best of my ability to shave ready. After the 1K, I ensure my razor is cutting/popping arm hairs before proceeding to the Norton. I've watched every known video (that I'm aware of) on youtube on honing, and have spent time researching the JaNorton thread. I'm using a home-made latigo leather strop, no Chromium oxide (yet). Light stropping pressure and typically 35-50 round trips before shaving. In addition, I use a red marker to ensure my honing strokes are covering the blade, and use a 16x loupe to check progress.

Typically using straight or X honing strokes, easing pressure toward the end of the honing process on each stone. I don't use the circle method. Under the loupe, and after the Norton 8K, the edge looks shiny, but some deep scratch marks are still visible (not sure if this is typical or not). I know the HHT isn't a benchmark for shave ready, but let's just say my razors pass HHT along the length of MOST of my razors. I have never had any of my razors honed by a honemeister....

Hopefully this gives you some general idea of my progress to this point, and some framework around my current honing skills. The point to all this is that I still can't get a smooth, comfortable shave with my straights! Especially in comparison to my Feather. I mean, the shaves with my straights are OK, but are inferior to my Feather for sure. I usually save WTG, then ATG, ALWAYS directly after a hot shower, shaving every other day on average. I have a coarse beard.

My blades include Bengal, Wolstenholms, Packwood, Wade and Butcher, Greaves just to name a few. I own full hollow, quarter hollow, and wedge razors. I tend to gravitate toward wedges and quarter hollows. The wedges are smiling razors, and I'm familiar with Glen's smiling wedge vids - I've watched them multiple times, and feel I've got the rolling X stroke down pretty good as I'm getting good coverage on the strokes. Thanks Glen by the way for some awesome vids!

Questions:
1. Is it time I consider a higher grit finishing stone?
2. Should I just get some Chromium Oxide and see if that gets me the results I'm looking for?
3. Should I consider using a different leather strop like English Bridle leather?
4. Any suggestions/thoughts that I need to consider?

Basically, what would you recommend I do to continue making progress? I feel like I'm stuck...

Sorry for such a long post. But I'm committed to getting an above average shave with a straight razor. Looking for any guidance this community is willing to provide. Thank you!

Jeff

If your edges aren't right on the 8k then a higher grit hone won't fix it, as like all new hone guys you will need more time to learn to hone. Go to a meet or get one on one help if your wanting instant results. You may not even have the bevel really set, lots of things can be the result of a poor edge, could be you need one honed to see what a good edge looks like and feels right. One other thing, just cause you shave with a feather doesn't mean your have your technique right for the straight, that may be your issue too, but having one done right can tell you that also. Tc

Sounds like you are on the right track. My thoughts would be:

1) Send ONE razor to be professionally honed to use as a comparison / reference.
2) After coming off the hones, do 50 laps on linen and then 100 laps on leather. Makes a difference.... if your stropping technique is good.

You are learning a LOT of different skills at the same time. Keep with it and you will find a point when it all comes together. If yo can try and find a mentor in your area for some one on one instruction. Will save you months of trial and error.

Let us know how it goes!

Matt

Thanks for the input. Not looking for instant results as I understand this is a learning process. 8 months into honing a dozen razors a couple of times each, and I feel I've made good progress. I'm not aware of anyone here in Pittsburgh in this forum, and nobody appears in the local SRP search. Otherwise I would very much like to go to a meet. In terms of technique, I'm always trying to be mindful of 1-2 spine widths away from my skin.
I agree that I think getting one of my razors professionally honed is probably the best thing I can do for benchmarking a good shave. I finally found a full time job, so disposable income will be easier to come by!

If your edge isn't right at 8K Chromox, higher grit hones, and English bridles won't help.

9 times out of 10 when someone is having this type of issue it all circles back to the 1K stone. Planes of the bevel aren't meeting properly, edge has microchips, or something isn't right at that level that is preventing the razor from shaving properly. If the bevel isn't perfectly set at the 1K level, and your work on the 4K doesn't clean up whatever you missed on the 1K, moving up in grit is pointless.

If you're still seeing deep stria at the 8K level, then that is a good sign of too much pressure on an earlier stone, and/or not enough time on the 4K stone. Step down a level and see if you can make those stria disappear. Wash the surface of your hones and be sure there's no errant grit on them. Also, consider stropping between stones. I thought that was a little on the OCD side until I tried it. Made a believer out of me, the result is notably better. Doesn't take much, just 20 linen and leather to clean off any bits of swarf or burrs that might be forming.

Also be mindful of how many strokes you're doing on the 8K. If you did your job on the 4K right, the 8K will probably be done remarkably fast. Do 5-10, check, do more only if needed. It shouldn't take much.

Do you have any American steel ??? perhaps a double hollow grind in good shape that you have honed ???

or

Tell me what you have in a very Hollow grind that you have honed that you feel is your Keenest edge

Yup, look at your edges with magnification, so you can see more detail at the edge. If the edge is not micro-chip free and super straight, find out why.

As said, 8k edges, should be laser straight and with just a bit of leather should produce a smooth shave. Feather smooth, will be determined by your technique and how straight you can make it with your stones. But…

Probably, you did not conclusively test the edge, for a fully bevel set. Look at it, If the bevel was not fully set, polishing may or may not fully set it, and even if it does, the edge could be weak.

A hair test is not a conclusive test, for a fully set bevel, by itself. Make the edge as straight as possible, with the 1k, after you are sure it is fully set.

Don’t get caught up in “Recipe Honing”, doing X number of laps, and schazam, it’s done. Do what the edge need, as many as it needs.

Here is a good video on checking for a fully set bevel. And here is a post on what to look for with magnification, Second Try at Honing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZYFsOP7rBc

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Do you have any American steel ??? perhaps a double hollow grind in good shape that you have honed ???

or

Tell me what you have in a very Hollow grind that you have honed that you feel is your Keenest edge

I would say my Bengal. It is a hollow grind, and I think is my keenest edge. WTG it seems fine. But against the grain, not so much. Especially in comparison to my feather.

I think most learning honing make a mistake regarding pressure. I know it took me easily 6 months before discovering, that, by feeling your edge during honing, deciding you hadn't set your bevel right, bearing down on the razor, almost to the point of flexing it (Esp. extra hollows) You try super hard to get things right, look at your edge under light, is it bowed in the centre, on BOTH sides, 1st your think the razor is warped. It's not. Your just putting to much pressure downwardly onto the razor. Start again, noting under your loupe, the stage of the edge. Look again after a dozen or so on your bevel setter, bet you have a noticeable double bevel. Real pressure, is mostly for removing chips, etc. Generally the razors most new people use aren't those that need major work. Step back, take it soft/slow. Cheers

CrOx will definitely help an edge but the edge has to be ready for it. Best guess would be bevel not being fully set.