Thread: Led flashlight shining directly down on the cutting edge?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

The TNT can tell you if the bevel is set, (it will cut into the nail and not slip off), but it is a destructive test. After you perform the test, the chances are very high, you will have ruined/chipped the edge. Remember, we cannot see, the real edge, even with 400X. And it cannot tell you if the whole edge is set or if you have a chip.

So, I do not use or recommend the TNT for razors.

The Thumb pad test, (TPT) can tell you, if the bevels are set, but it takes a while to learn. A TPT should feel like it sticks on the thumb, you are actually cutting into the first layer of skin. The sensation is often described as sticky.

The TPT also, will not tell you, if you have a chip and it is difficult to tell if the whole bevel is set.

Hair test are unreliable, a lot depends on your hair, and also will not tell you if you have a chip. The sample size is very small, because you are only testing one micron of the edge at a time. So it really tells you very little about the edge.

The visual test, is the only test that is not destructive, will tell you, if you have a chip or rolled edge and will tell you if you have a fully set bevel.

Look straight down, on the edge with magnification, 20-60X and under strong light, roll the razor slightly from side to side. If you see any reflection at the edge, the bevel is not fully set, or if you have a chip. Once you know what to look for, you can perform the test without magnification.

Here is a good post, honing a razor from start to finish. There are excellent photos of a fully set bevel, taken looking straight down on the edge. Second try at Honing.

At post 32, page 7, the bevel is not set. Post 42, page 9, getting closer. Post 45, page 9, almost there. Post 51, page 11, (first photo), a fully set bevel.

In this photo, you can see both bevels and the edge, a darker grey blur, no shiny reflections from end to end. If you now TPT this edge it will stick, and it will cut most hair.

Heart razors can be difficult to hone, they are hard and prone to chipping. I hone them with 2 layers of tape, some hone with 1 layer of tape, then add another layer and set a micro bevel.

In the post above, Second Try at Honing, the big issue was the honer was not using enough pressure on the 1k. With a Heart, you have to use some, (more) pressure to set the bevel, then polish the deep stria with less pressure on the 1k. Ink the bevel to make sure you have the right angle and are honing to the edge.

If the edge chips, just joint it and re-set the edge. Stay on the 1k until you have as perfect straight edge as possible. Then and only then, move up.

I have had the best edges on Harts, using lapping film.

I have 3 stock Hart blades that I checked the LRT test and they all had a faint white line, I think I am using an Led light that is too bright for this particular test...?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

The TNT can tell you if the bevel is set, (it will cut into the nail and not slip off), but it is a destructive test. After you perform the test, the chances are very high, you will have ruined/chipped the edge. Remember, we cannot see, the real edge, even with 400X. And it cannot tell you if the whole edge is set or if you have a chip.

So, I do not use or recommend the TNT for razors.

With all due respect to Euclid440, I completely disagree. The TNT will dull an edge, and that's why it's only used at the bevel setting stage and is always followed by a little more work on the 1k before moving on. I can also say from my own experience that it absolutely can tell you if the entire bevel is set. if there's a 1/8 section of bevel that's not set, I'll feel it. Also, as I said earlier, I often find chips in the edge that I missed under magnification. I use a 60x loupe, so I'm sure I would see much more with better magnification, but I don't see any need(for me, personally).

This just goes to show how personal these tests are and why you should try them all. You've got to figure out what works, and what doesn't work for you. The only way to figure that out is to spend time on the stones.

When performing the tnt and the blade is digging in the same way the whole length of the blade, correct me if I am wrong but that sounds like a set bevel right? If so, from what have read stay on the 1k a little more to get back the set bevel or after the tnt off of the 1k can I continue to the 4k?

You have to understand that there is some interpretation to the tests ALL tests have to be interpreted to how they fit you

For example what you wrote in the last two posts about the TNT and HHT

If that were me doing the test I would assume I had a toothy edge, that may or may not be true for you, check with your loupe and see if that is what you find..

You have to Test Check and Verify your way to being able to assess the edge, it takes practice and time and more practice and more time...

We can only give you the info as it works for us and hopefully parts of it will work for you,,, So many people mockingly say "It is just honing it ain't rocket science" they don't realize how true that actually is If it were rocket science we could give an exact formula that would work every time, for everyone, on every razor


Hone On !!!!


Ps: Now that the TNT feels good to you try the AHT and see what happens does it cut hair along the whole edge, does the TPT feel good along the whole edge, how does it look under the loupe ...

Test, Check, Verify

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You have to understand that there is some interpretation to the tests ALL tests have to be interpreted to how they fit you

For example what you wrote in the last two posts about the TNT and HHT

If that were me doing the test I would assume I had a toothy edge, that may or may not be true for you, check with your loupe and see if that is what you find..

You have to Test Check and Verify your way to being able to assess the edge, it takes practice and time and more practice and more time...

We can only give you the info as it works for us and hopefully parts of it will work for you,,, So many people mockingly say "It is just honing it ain't rocket science" they don't realize how true that actually is If it were rocket science we could give an exact formula that would work every time, for everyone, on every razor


Hone On !!!!


Ps: Now that the TNT feels good to you try the AHT and see what happens does it cut hair along the whole edge, does the TPT feel good along the whole edge, how does it look under the loupe ...

Test, Check, Verify

Awesome thank you, I have been learning a great deal here. Were you referring to the toothy edge when I asked about the blade grabbing my nail heel to toe? On the 1k I tried seeing the bevel and it passed all the test but when I shined the bright light down in the edge I could still see a faint white line, then I did a few spine leading strokes and the edge was invisible, what would that info mean to you? Just trying to pick your brain

Side note: I continued with that bevel through the progression to finish and a great shave with zero sting from the aftershave...

Originally Posted by dshaves

Awesome thank you, I have been learning a great deal here. Were you referring to the toothy edge when I asked about the blade grabbing my nail heel to toe? On the 1k I tried seeing the bevel and it passed all the test but when I shined the bright light down in the edge I could still see a faint white line, then I did a few spine leading strokes and the edge was invisible, what would that info mean to you? Just trying to pick your brain

Side note: I continued with that bevel through the progression to finish and a great shave with zero sting from the aftershave...

The comfortable shave is the only test that matters

Now you can keep adjusting ONE aspect at a time to improve how smooth it is

Myself I am very hesitant about ending on spine leading laps, I use them, and Japanese honing (Back and Forth), but I always finish off on every stage with edge leading..


The TNT can also be used to Kill the Edge/Joint/Downstroke once you learn the technique, it is a gentler version of using the hone or corner of the hone..

There are tons of little tricks to draw out the smoothest edge possible, once you are getting a CCS like you did then you can start playing around with them..

And yes if the Bevel set TNT is very hard and very "graby" then you very well might have a toothy edge in which case a Jointing or Corner of the hone light stroke to kill the edge might smooth it up, and then gently reset the bevel and move on again...

Update again! I have successfully honed 4 other razors with the same method since working with my very difficult Hart steel blade and I have come to a similar conclusion across the board. It turns out I wasn't far off from having the most wonderful shaves ever.

Yes I learned a lot from this OP question about bevel setting but that wasn't the problem it was totally revolved around torquing the blade to the edge riding the wave of water each pass that made the world of a difference. Thanks Glen!

There is a lot of stuff out there in videos and suggestions in forums but I did not find much info on folks stressing the edge torque issue. Maybe for others it comes naturally or is common sense or maybe it doesn't make much of a notable difference for them? Anyways consistent torque pressure while watching the wave of water in front of my razor told me I was hitting all pistons and the shave was song worthy! Which is what I learned here in SRP!!!

I will note that without torquing the edge down to the stone there can be a false positive that the water looks identical gliding over the edge as it should but the results will pass all the test except the comfort test. Without torquing the blades edge down to the stone the edges point will most likely get touched, sort of like it will hydroplaning no surface traction!

Again thank you everyone

There are so many subtle things that make honing easier or faster or smoother. They are so much easier to learn in person, that is why I so often tell people the best place to learn is at a meet.