Sharpening a sharp razor

Some time ago I picked up this Henri Bellefontaine Dryonit SR.
Attachment 247649

My question: The razor is sharp, but not hair popping sharp. Under 60x I can see the edge is in very good condition...no micro-chips, no rust or pitting, the bevel is even and there is minimal hone wear. I don't think it was used very much. Since it was an antique store find I don't know what was used to sharpen it initially. But it does need to be touched up. When I put it on the stones where should I start? Do I have to reset the bevel? Or should I move to the 3K, 8K or 12K (I use Naniwa stones). Any advice? This is a very nice razor and I want to make sure I do it right the first time.

Well that does vary by what you saw with the loupe. I would think if the bevel is fine and there is no sparkles or white lines when you look straight down one the bevel, you should be able to start with the 8K or maybe even 12K.

After disinfecting it first, I'd be inclined to give it a good stopping on linen and leather and see how it does or does not shave first. If it does not shave to your liking then go to the stones and see where the Nani 12K and a layer of tape get you. Still no joy shaving, then drop back to the 8K and so on.

Bob

I always start from the top and work my way down.

I prefer to start on the 1k and go up. I prefer to be sure rather than go back and forth between hones and my face. But neither way is right/wrong.

If its an antique/used razor I almost always start over regardless of the blade condition. A few times I was in a rush and just ran one on a pasted strop to try it out but I was just being inpatient. Of course you don't have to maybe a touch up on a high grit stone may be sufficient but for me I just re hone it from bevel up so I don't have to wonder.

If there is no micro chipping and looks really clean and still cuts hair I would probably at least give the 12k a try and see what happens, if still a no go drop back to the 3k and work back up.

I would just run it over a finisher strop it before I tried anything low grit. I don't see any point In starting from scratch on something that's just fine. Besides if that don't work you can always go lower on the grit.

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Originally Posted by BobH

After disinfecting it first, I'd be inclined to give it a good stopping on linen and leather and see how it does or does not shave first. If it does not shave to your liking then go to the stones and see where the Nani 12K and a layer of tape get you. Still no joy shaving, then drop back to the 8K and so on.

Bob

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Very Good Advice Bob! :tu

When Owen had loaned me the folding Japanese made straight razor that he'd found during the battle for Iwo Jima to have pictures taken I couldn't resist seeing if after over 60 years it would shave.

I stropped it 50 laps on cloth and 200 on leather.

After all those years it gave a decent shave. It was so tempting to see how it would shave with just a few laps on a 12K to refresh the edge but I restrained myself and returned the razor with only the stropping.

I don't wish to hijack this thread, if you are interested in more of the story about the Japanese razor see here:
Straight Razor Place - The Saga of a Japanese Straight Razor's Long Journey Home From the Battle Field of Iwo Jima

It may seem counter intuitive but starting on 1k could save you time... If time is a consideration.

Because you're asking this question, I would recommend working backwards starting with canvas and leather. You could go straight to 3k or 1k, but I think there's more to be learned starting up high in this situation. If all looks good under the loupe, it probably won't take a whole lot. A touch up on a Nani 12k takes less then a minute. If you need to go lower after that you really haven't wasted much time. I don't mind removing steel when needed, but I don't like to waste it.

I always start with bevel set on any new razor I have. I want to put my edge on them and to get the results I like I have to start from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I always start with bevel set on any new razor I have. I want to put my edge on them and to get the results I like I have to start from the beginning.

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Exactly

I have said it in the past and continue with the same rule

"The bevel ain't set until you set it yourself"

Sorta like all guns are considered loaded until you check it yourself


That bevel set might take a minute, I am by no means advocating wasting steel but I want the planes of the bevel to be mine, so that I am positive they are even and solid

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I always start with bevel set on any new razor I have. I want to put my edge on them and to get the results I like I have to start from the beginning.

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Normally that is what I do mostly because the razors I get almost always need an edge restore rather than just a bevel reset. I have had 1 new razor and a couple vintage NOS razors that shaved with just a stropping. OTH those improved a bit with either stopping on a hanging crox coated felt strop or a couple of swipes on a 12K Nani. If the edge looks good to me under a loupe I'll try strop and shave first just for the exercise of seeing if I can recognize a decent edge not set by me.

Bob

If in any doubt, 1 layer of tape and start from the 1k for me, your not going to remove a huge amount of steel anyway if it's in good nick. I find it learn more about a razor when I start from a bevel set.

For me its really all about conforming the razor to my usual maintenance practices. I start from scratch so I know the next time I go back to any one of my razors I know what to do to it. I don't want to ask myself the question was this a factory hone job or was it maintained with pastes or 2-3 layers of tape what have you. I rather not have to scratch my head and sit there with a loupe too much. If I receive a razor that's used I am going to probably buff it a little bit and clean and shine it up then it goes to the hones. It is just what I like to do. Every old razor I buy is an opportunity to hone a razor, soup to nuts, as I mentioned once before I don't get to do that very often anymore because I am just maintaining my collection and it requires very little honing to do so.

Looks to be fairly hollow ground.

One layer of tape, run the side of a sharpie on the edge from heel to toe with just the weight of the sharpie. It will lightly cut into the sharpie felt. You will feel any chips and ink both sides of the bevel and edge at the same time.

Do 4-5 light laps on the 12k and look at it, what you see will tell you where to go next.

Worst case, you go to the 1k and you wasted 2 minutes of your life. Either way be careful with full hollows, too much pressure will lift the edge off the stone.

If the edge and bevel are in good shape, you do not need a 1k bevel set, often dropping to a 4k is plenty. But it may just need a touch up.

Nice find, by the way…

Thank you all for the advice. I decided to play it safe and reset the bevel so I would know exactly what it took to sharpen this razor. I taped the spine and started with the 1k, 3/8k and 12k Naniwa stones. Then stropped with newspaper and leather. It passed the HHT all along the edge. So...it is honed, stropped and ready for my shave tomorrow morning. I will post a review in the SOTD.

Why tape?? The only way I would tape is if bevel had been set with tape and if that is the case I would reset it the correct way with no tape! Why mess with the angle the razor was made with. I tried tape for about a week and I realised it was a silly thing to do.



Slawman

Oh man, not another tape/no tape argument........

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Originally Posted by Slawman

Why tape?? The only way I would tape is if bevel had been set with tape and if that is the case I would reset it the correct way with no tape! Why mess with the angle the razor was made with. I tried tape for about a week and I realised it was a silly thing to do.






Slawman

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Beating dead horses is also a silly thing to do.


:deadhorse:

Because, the honer is fairly new to honing and will probably, use too much pressure, do too many laps and needlessly grind the spine and there by alter the angle and the look of the spine, (if he spent time refinishing it).

I always recommend new honers to use tape, until they master honing, then decide if they want to continue to tape.

I refinish my razors, sometimes spending many hours, sanding and polishing, or am honing customer razor, so there is no good reason not to use tape.

They are your razors, tape if you want, don’t if you don’t.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but that's just how I feel. I got some high ens Scotch Cellophane tape that is much thinner & used it on a razor that was like new & I wanted to keep it that way. You have to use a light touch but for me this is a workable method. If the tape looks worn change it out.

Slawman