Thread: Honing a W&B wedge, was giving me fits!

I personally would not through the idea of using four layers of tape out there unless the blade has some serious issues. That much tape will cause a notable change in the geometry of the bevel. The layers also become squishy and give you an inconsistent surface. Not saying that it can't be done, but it should be avoided if possible IMO. A wedge CAN be a pain if it has a lot of wear and a wide bevel. I've also honed old Sheffield wedges with little to no wear then honed up as easy and the thinnest hollow ground blade(without tape). The wider the bevel, the more work you have to do on each stone. There really isn't a magic number for layers of tape. You've got to figure out what's going to work for you and the specific blade that your working on. Once that bevel is set though, you've got to either stick with that many layers, or reset it with a different amount of layers.

Good job figuring things out. Once you establish a bevel set, if you flatten your angle(this is what happens when removing tape), you lose your ability to reach the edge of the blade with the hone.

I've seen it written here many times that you can remove a layer of tape and re-establish the bevel with a dozen or so laps. This may be true for a typical hollow grind, but a wedge can easily take 5 or 10 times that number due to the greater quantity of metal to be removed caused by the wider bevel area. Also, be very mindful of tape wear when bevel setting - at the tape wears, the edge starts to lose contact.

Originally Posted by sqzbxr

I've seen it written here many times that you can remove a layer of tape and re-establish the bevel with a dozen or so laps. This may be true for a typical hollow grind, but a wedge can easily take 5 or 10 times that number due to the greater quantity of metal to be removed caused by the wider bevel area. Also, be very mindful of tape wear when bevel setting - at the tape wears, the edge starts to lose contact.

Yes, I do believe I saw that in a thread on heavy blade restoration/resetting a bevel on a heavily chipped blade. Something like starting with 1 or 2 extra layers of tape and honing on a 1K bevel setter till the chips are pretty much gone. Then remove the extra layers of tape and continue on the 1K till you have your final bevel established before going up the progression.

The other times I have heard it mentioned to remove a layer of tape is before the finishing hone to produce a segmented bevel shaped similarly to a hipped roof.

Yes, I'd watch the tape wear, especially on the bevel set hone. The edge should not really loose contact as the tape wears but your bevel may become slightly wider making it take longer on the next hone to remove the striations of the previous. You have to wear the edge back on the next hone to get to the shoulder established by the previous hone. Just more work and steel loss added.

Yup, heavier grinds do take longer.

Bob

Originally Posted by sqzbxr

I've seen it written here many times that you can remove a layer of tape and re-establish the bevel with a dozen or so laps. This may be true for a typical hollow grind, but a wedge can easily take 5 or 10 times that number due to the greater quantity of metal to be removed caused by the wider bevel area. Also, be very mindful of tape wear when bevel setting - at the tape wears, the edge starts to lose contact.

The more I have been thinking about why I was using tape and removing a layer was this, I was theorizing in my mind that if I set the bevel with 3 layers, removed a layer and reset and removed a layer and reset that eventually I would be down to not having to use tape. Which honestly really makes no sense in the long run because my bevel would be a mile wide which I know really don't matter as long as it is set. I know this, it seemed right while I was doing it but the edge and micro scope proved me wrong. Now yes I could have made my theory work but that would have been a lot, a lot of bevel resetting.

Originally Posted by ejmolitor37

The more I have been thinking about why I was using tape and removing a layer was this, I was theorizing in my mind that if I set the bevel with 3 layers, removed a layer and reset and removed a layer and reset that eventually I would be down to not having to use tape. Which honestly really makes no sense in the long run because my bevel would be a mile wide which I know really don't matter as long as it is set. I know this, it seemed right while I was doing it but the edge and micro scope proved me wrong. Now yes I could have made my theory work but that would have been a lot, a lot of bevel resetting.

It's pretty common for guys to do tough bevel sets with the method that your describing. It Seems to make the process go a little faster I suppose. You can also do a sharpie test to get a good look at your progress as you bring in a new angle. Really wide bevels can be a pain to set, and that's a good reason to ad tape. As far as the cosmetics go, it's your blade so do what you like. There really isnt a right or wrong answer as far as that goes. I like a nice thin bevel on some razors, but sometime a big fat polished bevel can look really cool on an old blade.

This second wedge JOB15 mentions the 4 layers on I tried setting it "neked" and if I would have got there my clothes would be out of fashion and the entire blade face would be polished I guess since these are the first wedges I have tried to hone I was trying to get there as easily or in the same swift fashion I have with hollows and it just wasn't making sense to me until the other night, like a light bulb went off Usually I try and use minimal layers of tape and eventually would not mind be able to hone without tape though it really don't matter. Thanks again for your insight guys I appreciate it.

Originally Posted by BeJay

I personally would not through the idea of using four layers of tape out there unless the blade has some serious issues. That much tape will cause a notable change in the geometry of the bevel. The layers also become squishy and give you an inconsistent surface. Not saying that it can't be done, but it should be avoided if possible IMO. A wedge CAN be a pain if it has a lot of wear and a wide bevel. I've also honed old Sheffield wedges with little to no wear then honed up as easy and the thinnest hollow ground blade(without tape). The wider the bevel, the more work you have to do on each stone. There really isn't a magic number for layers of tape. You've got to figure out what's going to work for you and the specific blade that your working on. Once that bevel is set though, you've got to either stick with that many layers, or reset it with a different amount of layers.

No offence , and I respect your scientific point of view.

I have just shaved off a W&B 8/8ths honed with 4.5 layers of tape . The shave was some thing very special. My had was slightly shaking at the blades majesty and effects.

I will add this to hone of the day and so forth after I taken pictures . I've been waiting for daylight and free time to do so.

Adding a layer of tape here and there does not make as much a difference as most people believe.

I restore and hone quite a few W&B's , admittedly with hone ware. My most favoured W&B is a smiling near wedge that takes 6 layers and it holds a very special edge for a considerable amount of time.

I challenge you to take a near wedge and use 4 layers of tape and check out the results.

All the best.. Joseph

Ok so I took the other wedge I have been fighting and put 4 layers of tape on. Again nice bevel back toward the heel it was a bit thinner than the rest of the bevel, but I changed the tape as needed and used 4 layers all through my progression and I am feeling very well about this blade as well. I will be doing a test shave Sunday or Monday and can not wait to see the results. I think I could have went with 3 layers but my bevel would have been a bit more unsightly which who cares at the end of the day I am the one shaving with it I guess too JOB15 since I will be doing a test shave with 2 near wedges it might be interesting to see if there is a difference in how they shave? Since one was honed with 3 layers and one with 4 layers... I honestly doubt it will matter but we shall see. Thanks for the encouragement as always fellas and advice, you guys are a great bunch.

Originally Posted by JOB15

No offence , and I respect your scientific point of view.

I have just shaved off a W&B 8/8ths honed with 4.5 layers of tape . The shave was some thing very special. My had was slightly shaking at the blades majesty and effects.

I will add this to hone of the day and so forth after I taken pictures . I've been waiting for daylight and free time to do so.

Adding a layer of tape here and there does not make as much a difference as most people believe.

I restore and hone quite a few W&B's , admittedly with hone ware. My most favoured W&B is a smiling near wedge that takes 6 layers and it holds a very special edge for a considerable amount of time.

I challenge you to take a near wedge and use 4 layers of tape and check out the results.

All the best.. Joseph

no offense taken. And I have honed big choppers with four layers and had great results. Like I said, it can be done(and sometimes should be), but it's not something that I feel should be done on every near wedge. another thing to keep in mind is the width of the blade. Four layers on a 5/8 will affect the geometry much more then on an 8/8. If I'm doing a serious restore I will usually opt for more tape for cosmetic reasons. If it's something I'm just going to clean up and use I'll use less.