Thread: scratch marks Norton 4/8

Originally Posted by kelbro

I never saw any need to slurry a Norton 4K/8K. That may explain the cloudy look. Sharp should occur at 1K to 4K and then just polish. Less torque towards the edge and progressively lighter strokes works for me.

I'll have to give that a try. I watched gssixguns vids, and it seems he is a proponent of using slurry. I don't find myself putting too much forward torque on the edge. I'll be more mindful of that. Thanks for the input.

I'm using a non-lighted 16x loupe currently that I purchased at a gold and silver shop. Been thinking of getting a lighted loupe with more magnification. Might give me a better look at what's going on. I know there are tons of threads on this, but if there are any thoughts on a decent loupe or microscope that won't break the bank, I'd be very grateful.

Originally Posted by prodigy

The only time I want them all gone is when I know they are still 1k marks. After that, I let the blade do the talking. By that I mean the sticky, suction feeling a blade gives you on the stones, telling you it's done.

The 1k marks I assume are the ones evident by deep stria as mentioned before. I've heard about this "sticky, suction feeling" you mentioned. Can't say I've ever experienced this before.

Originally Posted by relli1130

The 1k marks I assume are the ones evident by deep stria as mentioned before. I've heard about this "sticky, suction feeling" you mentioned. Can't say I've ever experienced this before.

You can feel it on a norton 8k, but it has to be weight of the blade only pressure. Once you get it, you'll know.

Originally Posted by prodigy

You can feel it on a norton 8k, but it has to be weight of the blade only pressure. Once you get it, you'll know.

I've never felt that stickiness either. Would/should I feel this on a coticule? I also hone with a bit of forward or edge torque. Should my last (how many?) strokes be lighter with no torque? I have two that have taken a long time to finally shave nicely. I'm sure there's more improvement to be gained...

"stiction" can be misleading, as I have had a good number of blades that didn't reach that point, but shaved very well.

My suspicion is that taped spines reduce the metal contact with the hone by 50% or so, which reduces or eliminates the stiction sensation.

[QUOTE=relli1130;1682208]Hello,

I've been honing my razors for about a year. I have a 1K king for my bevel setter, and a Norton 4/8. My razors are popping hairs on my arm, and for the most part provide a comfortable shave. I do get irritation on my neck, but I may attribute that to poor technique, weak lather etc. I believe my stropping technique to be adequate...

The point is, I'm trying to make sure I'm getting the best edge I can off my Norton. I've watched endless honing videos, and been on the JANnorton thread for guidance.

I set the bevel with my King, using a slurry created by my newly acquired 400/1000 combo diamond plate. After I set the bevel, I wash off the slurry, and use a clean hone, water only.

Next, I create a slurry with on my 4k Norton, and use a variety of different strokes (heel-leading X, straight, rolling X etc.) depending on the kind of blade. After I'm certain I got good coverage along the entire bevel edge, I wash off the slurry, and usually use the diamond plate again to get a clean surface on the 4k, wash off the slurry, and follow up with several more strokes until the edge feels smooth during the honing strokes (water only, light strokes).

Next I use the 8K and follow the same honing pattern. Create a slurry on the 8k with my diamond plate, follow my progression until the honing strokes feel smooth. Then clean the hone with the diamond plate, wash off the slurry, and very light strokes on the 8k with water only.

So I took some pics of my edge with my iPhone and came away with the best possible pics to share. My concern is despite my efforts, the majority of my bevel edges still have some noticeable scratches. The bevel edge is not a mirror edge, but more like a foggy-mirror edge (depending on the lighting and angle at which I'm looking at it through the loupe). The point is, I think there is room for improvement. Or, am I expecting too much from my 8K? Are scratch marks impossible to remove entirely with the 8K? My guess is perhaps I'm progressing too quickly off the 4K, but honestly, I'm spending a lot of time on the 4K just to make sure...

For the most part, my razors are all Sheffields, which I understand are made from softer metals, and perhaps more prone to scratches...

Can you kindly take a look at these pics? There not perfect, but hopefully you can see the scratches I'm referring to. Let me know if I'm looking at a normal edge based off my description?

Thanks for looking, and I appreciate your input!


It depends on what you call scratches. A Norton 8K should leave a mirror polish on the bevel. However the edge is what’s important. Errant diamonds from the plate can cause scratches and contaminate your 4/8. How new and what kind is your flattening plate and have you knocked off the high diamonds?
Mike

Nice razor, a classic case of a razor in need of repair work, before it can be honed.

Forget the sticky feeling, if you do feel it, all it means is that the bevel may be flat, but still the edge may not be meeting fully, or chip free. Look at it to see what is happening. Don’t use a slurry with a synthetic, you don’t need it.

Your bevel is not fully set, flat and at the proper angle, (Double Bevel). The heel will need reshaping to keep the stabilizer off the stone, and move the edge corner forward, (note the spine wear and marks on the stabilizer. The toe is partially set, but not the heel. The stabilizer, is keeping the heel half of the blade fully off the stone.)

Put 2 layers of tape on and fully set bevel, with circles on the 1k, no slurry. Once flat and fully set, then remove a layer of tape, ink and reset with circles, it should not take many laps. Finish with light X strokes until you have an even stria pattern.

Then remove deep,1k stria with the 4k, and circles, finish with light X strokes. Make sure you are not burning through your tape. Ink will highlight your progress.

A Norton 8k is not quite mirror, but it can look pretty shinny. A good 8k edge, well stropped on linen and leather or stropped on Chrome Oxide is a smoking good, comfortable edge.


You do not need to remove all the stria from each stone, just the stria that will cause an issue. So, when learning to hone, assume all stria will cause and issue. Changing your finish honing angle, from heel forward, 45 degree to 90 degrees will easily, distinguish one stria pattern, from another.

While it sounds like a lot of work, it is not, if you take a systematic approach. The bulk of your work will be on the 1k.

Euclid440, just wanted to give you a huge thank you! I followed your directions, and came away with a smoking, amazing, comfortable edge! All I can say is wow! Never know what I was missing. I thought my edges were ok before, but I think I now know and understand what shave ready is. I still have some scratches, but not like before. The bevel is shiny, and I stayed on the 8k a bit longer than usual.

I did however use slurry on all 1K, 4K, and 8k, but after each slurry, I followed up with clean water. That was the only difference. Thanks a million! Cant wait to hone my other razors!